Getting Your First TV Producer Credit with Marc Jackson

Biagio: Hey, everybody, she is Joke. Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.

Joke: Hopefully by teaming up with us.

Biagio: All right, well, speaking of teaming up with us, we have a very special guest here today. But before we introduce you to him, we have a couple of quick announcements.

Joke: As you probably heard, they caught the subject of our CNN HLN series Unmasking a Killer. The Golden State Killer has been apprehended. And as Deadline Hollywood reported, we’re already working on a follow up. Obviously, we want an ending. Now that we’ve unmasked the killer.

Biagio: We actually unmasked them.

Joke: So by the way, you can stream the entire series free anytime on the CNN go app if you sign in with your cable provider.

Biagio: And be sure to check out our slightly giddy celebration episode that we did with Todd Lindsey, the producer who pitched us the the project on the official Unmasking a Killer podcast, which we did for CNN and HLN. You can find the Unmasking a Killer podcast, any place where you find podcasts. And one more quick thing we want to share with you. You probably remember back in January. We introduced you to Abra Sinard. She’s a brand new producer who brought us a very interesting pitch. We’re excited to tell you that we’ve set that up as a TV pilot at a major cable network, so stay tuned for more.

Joke: Yeah, that was episode 101.

Biagio: Yeah. Episode 101 one. You can find it at Producing Unscripted 101.

Joke: But today, allow me to introduce you to our guest, Marc Jackson.

Biagio: Marc Jackson.

Marc Jackson: Hello. Hello.

Joke: That is literally how we walk around.

Unidentified Voice: We’re like, it’s Marc Jackson.

Joke: Jackson Marc is a retired police officer who wanted to break into unscripted television, founder, podcast, and started pitching us projects through our pitch portal.

Biagio: Early on. Right. Marc, you got a few nos from us, as a lot of people do when they first pitch, because you were new, you know, you you didn’t come from a filmmaking background. This was all brand new to you, but you stuck with it. You kept pitching us. And now, nearly four years later, here we are with a project you pitched us, you know, working together to make a TV pilot. How are you feeling?

Marc Jackson: You know what? Wonderful. I feel like a part of the family.

Biagio: Well, you are part of the family. Yes. You know, we found out afterwards. We’re both from Cleveland. So we have this sort of like Midwest connection of of, you know, of never winning any championships at all except for LeBron’s a few years ago. But anyways, you know, tell me a little bit about your background because you haven’t spent your life as a filmmaker, right.

Marc Jackson: No, no, absolutely. Just the opposite. I spent my entire working life, which was almost 30 years now in law enforcement, started out with L.A. County Sheriff’s Department, worked my way up, detective major Crimes Bureau did some undercover work, and I worked with the feds, Homeland security. And then that’s kind of when I got the bug, and I kind of brought my bug to you. And, you know, I’ve been itching it ever since.

Biagio: Believe me. Well, first of all, I think it’s hilarious that you were ever an undercover agent because you look like the Rock. Except the bigger. So I’m going to post a picture up of the three of us with this, with this podcast episode, and you’ll see he literally looks like an action star. So I don’t know how anyone looks at you and goes, that’s not a super cop.

Marc Jackson: That’s what my wife tells me. You know, we walk into places and I’ve got my earrings on and I’ve got my, you know, my hats on. And I think, you know what? This is good. Nobody’s going to know. And my wife looks at me every time and says, oh, by the way, the waiter said, is your husband a cop? So he just kills me every time. So no, you’re right.

Biagio: And how many years did you spend in law enforcement?

Marc Jackson: Roughly 29.

Biagio: 29. This is what I love so much about Mark’s story, right? So many people ask us. Oh, you know, I’m at a different stage in my life. I don’t know if unscripted television is something I should pursue if it’s smart. This is something that Mark truly wanted. It’s not for everybody. But he decided to chase the dream, even after retiring from a career that had nothing to do with television producing or filmmaking. And here you are. Yeah. So kudos to you, man.

Marc Jackson: Absolutely. Looking across the desk at you guys and again, I can attribute it to to nothing else but being connected to you too early on, sitting across the table listening to how comfortable you guys were in your world, and then just feeling like every time I met with you guys and of course I would get my nose, but instead of just sending me out the door with no grow up, you know, get a life, you guys would give me constructive criticism on how to make it better, how to open the world up, expand the world, give more details, open up more doors to this forbidden world that the world doesn’t know about. And I would come back stronger, or I’d feel like I’d come back to the table stronger every time.

Biagio: So now, you know, it’s interesting because obviously by that point, what you’re talking about, you’d already pitched through the portal. You know, we’d already seen your pitches, we’d already asked for a meeting. But when you first discovered it, you didn’t know who the heck we were. What was it that made you decide to pitch.

Marc Jackson: One thing? Listening to you guys and listening to your podcast. That’s it. Thank you. You guys gave me the confidence to say, you don’t have to grow up in this world to be confident enough to have a good idea, and it was just that simple. And once I realized, or once I felt like I had something that was interesting and I started to go down your list of it’s an unforgiving world that the world does not have access to interesting characters. And following that laundry list, when I was able to check those off, I felt like, okay, it’s time.

Biagio: That’s so important because you did it and not everybody does, right? Joke like he actually.

Joke: Did your homework. Like, I mean, we talked and I think it’s important for people to understand like it wasn’t like we had the meeting and then you went away in a week later. You had checked off your list. I mean, there was like a good time there where, like, we didn’t talk for like over a year, even more. So I think I think that’s part of it. It’s like, you know, it’s you listened, which was great. And then you internalize that and made that happen on your own time, and then came back and we were still here. Yeah. And then, you know, we found the right project because of the access that you brought, which, you know, something we talk about a lot on the podcast. It’s not just an idea. So I think that, you know, when you came in and we’re like, look, these are the things that you’re going to need your checklist, like you said. And then you went and check those off and came back and we teamed up and set up the project at a network. And now you have your first producer credit.

Unidentified Voice: The rest is history.

Biagio: Oh my gosh, I honestly like and I’m so particularly happy for you because I mean, you know, again, Cleveland boy, right.

Unidentified Voice: I’ve got that connection. You know on a on a on.

Joke: This was like a strike against you.

Unidentified Voice: I figure if I could, you know.

Biagio: I forced joke to marry me in Cleveland. She’s from Belgium, where it’s really beautiful. I’m from Cleveland. Where, you know, the pictures aren’t always the best.

Unidentified Voice: That’s right. The choices.

Joke: For wedding venue were Belgium, Santa Barbara, Los Angeles or Cleveland.

Biagio: How much does my wife love me that she marry me in Cleveland?

Marc Jackson: The obvious choice.

Unidentified Voice: Oh, man. Come on. Right.

Biagio: Yeah. Pretty pretty pretty amazeballs. So let’s talk a little bit now. So so so okay, so we’ve already discussed the fact that what you did was you sort of explored the world around you, figured out what you had access to, what you could use to build a package. So you had more than just an idea. Pitched it, sold it, working on it now now is going forward. You know, since we’ve been doing this. What if you’re producing duties? Been like. Like what? What is it that you’re doing on the project? Explain to people. Because again, you’re new to this, but you’re doing very important work.

Marc Jackson: Yes, sir. You know what? And again, this was it was a surprise with respect to how involved I’ve been. And I kind of surmised everything with one word wrangling. You take a lot of different moving parts. You bring them together and you make them work. You guys give me projects, you guys give me direction on certain things, and then I fine tune those things. Like we’ve always said, with the world that I’m involved in, I’ve been connected to it the last 29 years. Law enforcement, for lack of a better term. I speak the language. So when I pitched these law enforcement related projects, you guys come to me and say, okay, now take this, take these things, and now make the world understand them, decipher them, bring them down to this level so that we can now formalize this and make it pitch or movable or whatever.

Biagio: So that’s true, because when you read a straight up police report from the.

Unidentified Voice: Cop who wrote it.

Biagio: You know, it’s not like watching Law and Order.

Unidentified Voice: It’s it’s it’s pretty, it’s pretty. It’s pretty dry and.

Biagio: Not always comprehensible to your alarm. It, you know, say.

Marc Jackson: Things like vehicle.

Biagio: Yeah, I know a vehicle. What is this V word. You know, three syllables. So, so anyway, so so that’s what you’re working on right now. Obviously we’re getting ready to actually shoot, you know, which right now we’ve sort of you’ve sort of been pulling together all the, all the principles. The development. Yeah. The development of it. What do you what are you most excited about as far as far as what’s ahead of us?

Marc Jackson: Well, as far as what’s ahead of us, let me reach back one step. The pitch reel. I can’t tell you how excited and what have I seen it probably, like nine times. How excited I was to see the pitch reel and how proud I was to be connected to you guys. And that what I saw in front of me. Now moving forward, the pilot, I can’t tell you how excited I am to be a part of that portion of it, which is the next portion. So yeah, I’m excited about now pulling it all together to that, to that level, and then bragging to my friends that this is where we are.

Biagio: Nice brag. You should, you know, and you mentioned the pitch tape and that’s actually worth, worth taking a second to talk about. You know, whenever we go out with a project, by and large, we like to have some kind of tape, especially if it’s a project where you’re proving access, you’re proving that people want to be a part of the project. You’re proving that you have access to an organization or a place or a thing. You need that tape to show that off. And so when we were talking early on, you really needed to pull together everybody who was going to be in that first tape.

Marc Jackson: Yeah, absolutely.

Biagio: What was it like calling up people who you knew and saying, hey, I’m trying to get into TV producing, and I want you to sit down with me. Were they hesitant? Were they excited?

Marc Jackson: Well, you know, law enforcement, especially those that have been involved in it for quite a while, like myself. It’s a community. The community is based on trust. So if I come to a partner and I say that down that hallway, there’s a room to the left and it’s occupied and the guy could have a gun. My partner doesn’t question me. He goes down there with the with that in mind that he’s going to have to engage someone. So now translating that into this world, there was some skepticism. Mark, what are you doing? Where are you taking me? This is a world that we’ve never been involved with. Law enforcement is nuts and bolts. It’s one and two. It’s not what you know. It’s what you can prove. So with that in mind, I’m coming to the table with a blank deck of cards here and saying, guys, trust me. Trust me. So I found myself saying the same pitch over and over and over and over.

Biagio: You’re like, yeah, I’m working with two people named Joe and Biagio. What could be more trustworthy.

Marc Jackson: Than I would have to go back? And I said, okay, listen. Okay. Joke production. She’s from Belgium and I would have to start from there. So that was my leading joke.

Biagio: I’m sorry. I didn’t.

Marc Jackson: Believe it.

Biagio: You know, we’ve been dealing with that since day one, but that’s all right. I wouldn’t have it any other way. Absolutely. Her dad still says that he’s a real joke maker.

Marc Jackson: I love it.

Unidentified Voice: Let’s keep this PG.

Biagio: Let’s keep a PG 13. So. So, Mark, let’s what’s been because obviously this is new to you. What’s been the biggest surprise about the process from your initial concepts to where we are now?

Marc Jackson: Okay. You know, again, going back to my wife, my wife has to tell me constantly, Jackson, this is not your world. Be patient. Don’t get your feelings hurt. So with that being said, it’s the speed.

Biagio: Yes.

Marc Jackson: The lack of speed, I should say.

Biagio: Oh, we don’t move lightning fast. Every single thing we do.

Marc Jackson: No, sir.

Biagio: The business. The business isn’t just like zoom along.

Marc Jackson: It’s amazing. And you know, I’m used to being the person that’s running the program. I decide the speed and all that. So coming from my world to this world, it’s like, okay, so have they forgotten my phone number? I sent that text at least three hours ago, you know. Did I say something? You know, as my subscriber? Cut me off what is going on? And listen, I’m a Cleveland boy, and I get a little sensitive.

Biagio: I do too.

Marc Jackson: Again, my wife has to tell me. Mark, don’t take it personal. It’s business. So again, it’s the speed, it’s the lack of speed.

Biagio: And by the way, it is like three hours later. It’s not like I wait three months to text them back. But, but but yeah, but you know, when you’re again, like when you’re new, we know we knew each other a lot better than we did even a couple of years ago, you know? But when you’re new to it, you don’t know what working with us is going to be like. You don’t. And I’m sure you know, listen, when we get busy, I make no bones about it. Everybody who works with us knows we’re always in production and at least 1 or 2 series, you know, it’s not always easy to get Ahold of us. So I’m aware that it can be a challenge sometimes to get us, you know, on the phone. But I think to your credit, like, you never gave me the sense that you were freaking out. You were just always very polite. You were like, you know, you’d send me a text like, hey, brother, haven’t heard from you for a minute. Just want to make sure everything’s cool. And I’d be like, it’s all super cool.

Joke: I know it’s one of those things that it’s interesting to hear your perspective because, I mean, you’re absolutely right. It’s a cliche, but show business slope is. And so we we’ve still got used to this rhythm of hurry up and wait, right. Because then when someone wants something, it’s like.

Unidentified Voice: We need it now.

Joke: And then it’s like, okay, now you don’t hear from us for three months. So. So yeah, I get it. It’s a it’s a little getting used to it. And it’s frustrating even for us. I mean, you know, when you’re super excited about something and then you have to wait because of a million different reasons. But but yeah, that’s just part of the part of the biz.

Marc Jackson: I’ve referred to it as the black hole. My wife and my my new business partner. He’s new. He’s newer than me. So I’m trying to bring him along and get him used to the fine tunings of this world. And he’s from fire. They sleep a lot.

Biagio: And play a lot of cards.

Marc Jackson: A lot of cards, and watch a lot of TV and shine trucks. So, you know, I have to tell him I’m like, Craig, here’s the deal, brother. Like Biagio and Joe have said, it’s not show business, slow business. So just wait. We’re in the black hole right now. We will hear something. Just wait. So.

Unidentified Voice: And you know, he’s.

Joke: Used to hurry up and wait.

Unidentified Voice: Yes.

Biagio: He is as a fireman for sure. I mean, listen, that’s the game we play all the time, right? I mean, we’ve, we’ve had shows where we’ve pitched them and we get a development offer, you know, in the room, and we have shows we’ve pitched in three years later and finally someone finally wants it. So it’s just it’s just part of the business, which is why it’s so important, as we’ve said numerous times on this podcast, to pitch multiple projects. That’s exactly what you did from day one. You came at us with things that you had real access to with your own unique twists on them, until we found one that was right that we felt we could make work, which again, I think is just fantastic. What would you say to people who are wondering if they should pitch their projects to us?

Marc Jackson: I would say prepare for several nos, prepare to fine tune and refined. And last but not least, you can connect to your projects, but don’t love your projects immediately. Because when you get the nose, it goes right to the heart. So like them, don’t love them until they start production.

Biagio: Yeah, exactly.

Joke: That’s a that’s a great note.

Unidentified Voice: Yeah. Sage advice.

Biagio: From the guy who’s new to the business. Sounds like he’s been in it for 40 years.

Joke: I am telling myself I was like, man, you should take that advice.

Unidentified Voice: Yeah. I’m like, yeah, you know, sometimes.

Joke: We love our projects too much and then we can’t get them set up. It is heartbreaking.

Unidentified Voice: True. Yeah. So true.

Biagio: And going forward, like we’re not done I want to make a bunch of TV shows with you, dude. You know, I mean I mean, you you have such a unique sort of understanding of law enforcement and you’re actually really good at being a producer. You’re really good at organizing stuff. You’re really good at making sure people show up on time. It’s, you know, and and that they’re comfortable and they don’t walk in here or feel like they’re walking into some Hollywood sharks, but but they’re walking in here to talk to two of us, a little joke, and Biagio, and we’re going to have fun, and it’s going to be nice. You do a perfect job with all that. Thank you. Also, I’m going to say it here. I predict that someday I may be crazy, but I predict it someday. We’re going to also do a TV show that you’re on camera for because you look like an action star. And I would love to do a show with you. We just got to figure out, we just got to figure out the right angle on the right project. But you you should. As good as you are behind camera. I also think you’d be great on camera.

Marc Jackson: So wonderful. I’ll start working on my abs now.

Unidentified Voice: Yeah.

Biagio: Working on your abs, dude. You’ve got you’ve got like, abs for days. Like. My goodness, he’s. Do you see the picture of this guy? He looks like an actual stuff. And so I would want to thank you for being here today. This has been a terrific conversation. And, you know, for anyone out there thinking this business might be for them, but wondering whether or not it’s actually possible, just look at Mark. You know, he had no filmmaking experience, but he secured terrific access to a TV friendly world. He’s adding value by managing relationships with the on camera talent and helping us keep things authentic. And you know, he’s officially a TV producer now. Yeah. Thanks for being here, dude. I’m proud of you.

Unidentified Voice: Thank you.

Biagio: Thank you, thank you for trusting us.

Unidentified Voice: I appreciate it. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, Jim.

Announcer: Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.