Reality TV Stripped Naked with Mickey Ramos

Biagio: Hey, everybody. She’s joke. He’s Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.

Joke: Hopefully by teaming up with us.

Biagio: All right. Well, today we are here with Mickey Ramos, one of the funniest, most in-your-face, overtly honest and talented producers we’ve ever worked with in unscripted television. And I can’t think of a better person to have for an episode called reality TV Stripped Naked, because that’s what today is all about. We are going to bear the truth for you in all its beauty, ugliness, and whatever else you want to call it. Thank you for being here.

Mickey Ramos: Thank you for having me.

Biagio: Oh my gosh, I was so excited when you said you were going to do it. I was like, this is going to be awesome.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, I got a weird career. I have a weird resume. You do. But it’s that same some of those you’ve done naked and afraid. Naked and afraid. Wild for MTV. I also did Sled next, which was their attempt to do Jersey shore in the snow. Jersey shore in the snow. Yes. And Buckwild, which was Jersey Shore in West. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I also have done Generation Cryo for MTV. That’s the documentary series following someone trying to contact their birth father. Yeah, I’ve done Project Runway All Stars. I also saw Paradise Hotel, I Paradise Hotel season two. Yeah, we were in Mexico and that was interesting. But yeah, Paradise Hotel is one of the biggest reality shows ever, I know. And also I am the voice of Tammy Warner, Kenny’s girlfriend on South Park. Woo woo. So, yeah, my career is all over the place.

Biagio: I didn’t realize you were the voice on South Park. Oh, yeah. I mean, I know you’re super talented and do all kinds of awesome stuff.

Mickey Ramos: I killed Kenny.

Biagio: Oh, my gosh, that’s amazing. What does your voice sound like on that show?

Mickey Ramos: They they had me pitch it up a little bit naturally on my own, and then they put their filter on it, but they had me say things like, oh, come on, Ken, we can be we can be boring and tired when we’re in our 30s and we’re boring and tired anyway. And then they pitch it up. Yeah.

Biagio: That’s amazing.

Mickey Ramos: That’s awesome. Yeah, they even made the character look a little bit more like me too. They put some highlights in her hair. And supposedly Tammy Warner’s the only family that’s more poor. Poorer than Kenny’s family in case. Yeah. Well.

Joke: So having that varied of a resume would. What do you think is like the number one takeaway in dealing with talent? Participants, contestants, whatever you want to call them on reality shows.

Mickey Ramos: I think the biggest thing and why I continue to get work is because the cast, the talent, whatever we’re calling them that day, they have to know that you actually really care about them, because once you get in and you break it down to a human being level and they know that you’re not out to get them, that you’re actually just there to help them through the process, and that you actually do care about what comes out of their mouths. They open up to you. And I just really dig talking to people anyway. And I put my I open up my own life to them so that people trust me quickly, and then I can help guide them through the process of what it’s like to be on a reality show.

Biagio: Yeah.

Joke: How do you how do you balance that with obviously the show will need certain things, like if you’re doing, you know, sled and X and it’s like Jersey shore. Like there’s a there’s a level of expectation from the network for you to get certain amount of drunk fights or outbursts or whatever. So how do you how do you level that then with them?

Mickey Ramos: So if I’m doing an MTV show, Buckwild and Sled next, those kids are all 19 to 23 years old. So I jump back into my 19 to 23 year old self, which is not too far removed from who I am now. No no no. So it’s about my days in college, my mindset of getting drunk and partying. And that was my only reason for living. You know, and I relate those things about myself. And then they’re like, okay, she knows where we’re coming from. But then when I do something like Project Runway All Stars, these people have legit careers outside of this reality show, and they need to be treated like, like actual experts who have a business. And I need to understand that they can’t be saying things on the show that’s going to damage their career outside the TV show. Total different way of dealing with people depending on the and what you’re trying to get out of it.

Joke: Right, exactly.

Biagio: It’s so true. And also, I just think something you said that’s so important that most people don’t get like if you’re going to do an unscripted television show, reality TV show, documentary series, whatever, like you said, whatever they’re calling it that day and whatever the final show is, you’re taking on a responsibility that lasts far beyond the filming of that show, because you end up staying in touch with these people for the rest of your life. If you’re good at what you do and you care about what you do, right?

Mickey Ramos: Absolutely. I mean, I’ve helped former cast members make the move to Los Angeles. I’ve let kids crash on my couch. I, I, you know, these people who I’ve been working with. I did Paradise Hotel in 2006. I’m still friends with those people. Yeah. You know, I see them get married. I see them have kids, I see. It’s just bizarre to me. And that’s the thing that never really comes across. When you see reality TV shows, you just don’t realize the human element of it.

Biagio: Well, I think that’s the thing that, you know, bothers me about a lot of people who will automatically just Pooh Pooh all of reality and all of unscripted television and be like, oh, well, it’s just all fake. I mean, in a lot of ways, I couldn’t be further from the truth. Again, if you’re trying to do a real show where you’re getting to know people and you’re putting their lives on screen in the most honest way, it is such a commitment from both sides, and it’s actually a much harder journey, I think, than just making a scripted show. You write a script and shoot it. I mean, because now you actually have to deal with the rest of these people’s lives, how you’re affecting it. Not that not just that day, but until the day they die. Now with social media and the world we live in.

Mickey Ramos: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you’re really you really have to understand that you have somebody’s life in your hands in a lot of ways, and you have to be delicate with that. But at the same time, you have to get what you need out of your cast to actually do the show. So it’s that constant back and forth that I push too far. Did I not push hard enough? It’s a constant battle.

Joke: And there’s a responsibility to it, obviously, in what we do, because we do feel responsible for them in their lives and how they come across. And at the same time, what I think I’ve learned and we’ve tried to do is honesty helps a lot, right? If you’re being very honest with them up front about, you know, what the kind of show is what we’re expecting. I mean, anybody signing up for X knows what’s going to be expected of them, right? And if you’re, you know, Project Runway All Stars, you understand. Okay, maybe they’ll make me more of the stressed out character or more of this character. But at the end of the day, I’m still going to be allowed to show my best designs and I’ll sink or swim based on my work. And you’ll also hopefully know that if a producer is like, hey, we want you all to get drunk in the hot tub, then it’s like, wait, we’re on Project Runway. Oh, sorry. It’s like, right. So I think honesty and hopefully a lot of this gets done in the casting process, being honest in the casting process so that by the time you get them on set, everyone knows what’s expected.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. I mean, yeah, the kids on Paradise Hotel, the sled next to Buckwild, they know they’re there to be 20 hot drunk and fighting or having sex. Right? They know that.

Biagio: That’s what they signed up for ahead.

Mickey Ramos: Of time. Well, one of the interesting problems I ran into was I still had that same talent agreement that was from those shows where everybody gets drunk and all that stuff, and I had to give it to the kids on Generation Cryo, who in that show was not about getting drunk and getting in the hot tub. So all the parents of these kids are reading this contract and they’re like, wait a minute. What? And I have to explain to them, I’m not a lawyer, but I have to explain to them these contracts are made for everything that MTV does. I’m not going to make your daughter put on a bikini and get into a hot tub. I promise that’s not what this show is about.

Biagio: That’s where the trust comes in.

Joke: Yeah, and MTV’s is very known for that. I mean, those are like 50 page contracts. I’ve sat down in too many kitchens with people and their parents trying to explain to them, you know, there will not be cameras in your bathroom. That’s not this show. You know, that’s Jersey shore, that’s not this show. But yeah. And, you know, again, something like Generation Cryo is very much more of a documentary. And so I feel like there’s even more responsibility to those people because this is their real life. They’re talking about real issues like, you know, who’s my father? That’s that must be even harder.

Mickey Ramos: That is the most difficult show I’ve ever been a part of. Probably one of the least watched shows I’ve ever been a part of, but it was a quality show. I found the donor father for what I can figure out now is at least 12 children. So these kids had all been searching for that answer. The parents have been searching for that answer, and I took all the dossiers that the parents had from the various donor clinics they had gone to, and I turned into an internet stalker, and I figured out who the guy was and then presented that information back to these families. And you could see the cracks and the foundations of these families. Once they got that info, they thought they wanted to know, but once they had that information, it just threw their lives all in different directions. But I think they’re all stronger for it now. But man, I cried every single day on that show. It was tears of happiness, tears of sadness. It was just tears.

Joke: Yeah. And so, so like you did. You contacted the father.

Mickey Ramos: We had to be really careful about that because I figured out where he lived. But you can’t drop a letter there because that’s a federal offense, you know? So there’s all these kinds of things. And again, not a lawyer had to figure out all these things. So we fed to him something. We knew he got it because we got the return signature thing. But we didn’t know anything past that.

Joke: Yeah. It’s hard.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah.

Joke: Yeah. I mean, we’re doing, you know, some crime shows too. And it’s like, you know, contacting these people. You don’t know if they’re going to be receptive to it or not receptive to it. And so you.

Mickey Ramos: This guy was not receptive to it. He did not want to come on the show. But since he has opened up a dialog with the kids, the kids now know where they come from. He has built a website for them with photos of his family so that they can see where they came from. And I feel if I’ve done nothing else in this industry, that’s the one thing I know is real, tangible human contact that I made people’s lives better. I did through reality television.

Joke: Yeah, we always say that, you know, or like reality television, changing people’s lives for the better. But it’s like, you know, it’s the opposite of what a lot of people poo out there in the industry. But, you know, you’ve had those personal experience. We’ve had those personal experience, even from a show like Scream Queens, where, you know, you give someone an opportunity and they fight and they fight for it and, you know, it builds that hustle. They get those opportunities, and then it’s up to them to make the most of it. But yeah, there really is. Well, now we’re just getting sappy.

Biagio: Yeah, but but the point though is, is I think though, coming back to sort of like the idea that you’re, you’re asking people to sign up for an experience, you need to be really clear upfront what that experience is and why it might be different from other shows on the air. And I think that’s what it comes back to, because like you said, you know, the if you’re doing buckwild, it’s very, very different than doing the documentary series. Same thing with like our show that MTV was a documentary series, but everybody’s looking at Jersey shore and we explained, yes, it’s the same contract, but no, it’s a different kind of show. And so it’s all about that honesty right up front and just really making sure that, again, you need to earn their trust. And that also means you can’t break that trust. You can’t be one of these producers who just sleazy and just kind of like says what you need to say to get them to sign the contract and then shoot whatever, because that will always come back to bite you. Are there people still signing up for and they don’t know what they’re signing up for? Do you think?

Mickey Ramos: Well, I don’t think so much that. But I think I’ve definitely worked with some producers who don’t understand the the trust concept and have just said things to cast members in front of groups and cut down cast members so that those cast members no longer want to open up and be that open and honest person on camera. And then I pull that producer aside, rip them a new one, and then put them back in the game. But you can’t lose that trust, because once you do, a lot of times you can’t get it back.

Biagio: Yeah.

Joke: And that’s with any relationship on camera, off camera or anything, right. Once the trust is broken, it’s a very fragile thing.

Biagio: And you’re shooting for a few weeks. You’re not shooting with these people for years. I mean, yeah, months. So it’s like, okay, how are you going to earn the trust back that quickly?

Joke: And you might need them for pickups.

Mickey Ramos: Oh, you always need them for pickups.

Biagio: For those listening who don’t know pickups or when you miss something the first time around, so you go get a pickup, whether it’s an interview or a voiceover line or whatever. And if you’re cast who when the show is done, guess what? They’re not going to give you your pickup.

Joke: Yes, yes. Well so okay, so now that we’ve done with the sappy stuff, give me some funny stories from the trenches.

Mickey Ramos: Well, naked and frayed. I don’t know how funny it is.

Biagio: I know I was.

Unidentified Voice: Used to seeing most amazing.

Biagio: Story ever. This is.

Mickey Ramos: This is.

Joke: Almost lost her lips on making it afraid. And discovery did a great job publicizing it. Yes they did. So you can actually talk about it.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, yeah. There are two people who have almost died on the show. One was Steve Rankin. He’s the creator and executive producer of Naked and Afraid and me.

Unidentified Voice: Yay!

Joke: All right, so tell us, where were you? What was happening?

Mickey Ramos: Oh, I was on Isla San Jose, little Island, off off of Panama. So flew there, flew to Panama, then took a little tiny plane onto this island that was like no people.

Joke: And so your cast is with you at this point.

Mickey Ramos: Cast is not there. We fly in. There’s a small core group that flies in ahead of time to do location scouting, location being the jungle.

Joke: Right. So you guys were scouting?

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, we were scouting. And the scouting there is 90 degrees, 95% humidity at all times. The the terrain is unforgiving. Everything there wants to kill you, even if you like, lose your balance and try to go grab a tree branch next to you. The tree branch has needles sticking out of it that’ll go directly through your hands. So I went out in the forest jungle every single day. I went out in the jungle every single day, covered completely from head to toe, only my face showing.

Joke: And how many of you were out there on that particular day?

Mickey Ramos: There were eight of us out on the scout. It was the last day of our scout, and it was the medic. The medic and I had been on every scout prior to that. So the two of us were incredibly exhausted. We were bringing up the rear. Most of the other people on the on the Scout were just there. There was their first day scouting, so they had fresh legs. So we’re out and I’m climbing over this giant fallen tree in the middle of this jungle, and I feel this buzzing on my right ear. Pretty loud buzzing. Figured it was a dragonfly. Went to wipe it away. Buzzing didn’t stop. Then I realized quickly what was happening and I lifted my head up and I shouted bees! Because we had been told that there were Africanized bees on that island.

Biagio: Also known as killer bees.

Mickey Ramos: Africanized killer bees. And once I realized that’s what was attacking us, I looked up and the people who were at the front of our party were running back towards me, waving their arms about, clearly being attacked by bees.

Joke: Oh, so you guys were in the rear. So the people in the front were. So the bees were coming all the way from the front. You were just surrounded by them?

Mickey Ramos: Well, the people in the front, one of the men who lived on the island, who was leading the the expedition with his machete, hit a branch on a tree that had a hive that had the killer bees. Then they just came after everybody and not having fresh legs. It was just really hard to get out of there and there’s no cover, you know? And I went through successive pools of water trying to stay away from them. You can’t stay under water. You’re gonna drown, right? There was one time when I fell into a pool of water, my boot got lodged in between a couple of boulders, and I wasn’t able to come up for air.

Joke: Oh.

Unidentified Voice: Oh my God.

Mickey Ramos: So I was like, so am I going to die from the bee stings or am I going to drown? Right. You know, and got my foot free and then continued to get up out of the water. And as soon as you get up out of the water, the bees are there again, and they’re around your neck. They’re in your ears. I went to open up my mouth to scream. They flew in my mouth. They stung the sides of my my inside of my mouth. They stung my tongue. My tongue was numb for a month after the situation.

Biagio: So they’re singing you the whole time.

Mickey Ramos: Everywhere. They were stinging me through my leather gloves that were on my hand.

Joke: Oh, wow. So you are so. So there’s some water in the jungle. You get. The water seems to be the best. But like you said, it’s either drown or get stung. So you go under for as long as possible. Then you come up quickly and everybody else was running past you. Where you run to. I mean, you’re in the jungle.

Mickey Ramos: Every man for himself. All we knew was go back from where we came, get to the jungle entrance, the way we came in, and somehow don’t know how. I threw myself up over a giant boulder. That there was a big pool of water beneath it. And once I came up, I realized that the boulders created this little tiny trickle of a waterfall. So I backed myself up against those boulders and pulled the brim of my hat down, which created another wall, and kind of kept all the bees away from me at that point. And then your body starts going, okay, we’re in shock, right? And then I started coming out of both ends. My body was just it was.

Joke: All the toxins, too.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. My body was just fighting against me. I had to puke. I couldn’t hold anything down. It was a mess.

Joke: Yeah. And so who eventually then got out to get the medical help because there’s eight of you getting attacked. Like, how did you even get out?

Mickey Ramos: Well, once I came to and realize, okay, the imminent danger has stopped.

Joke: The bees went away.

Mickey Ramos: No, the bees were on the other side of that water, right? Two inches in front of my face. And I stuck my head out to see. And they were still there. So every time I would stick my head back out, the bees were still there. So I’m like, how long is this.

Joke: Going to last?

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. You know, how long is this going to go on? And then it was silent. The whole jungle was silent. I couldn’t hear the other seven people. I couldn’t hear anything. And I thought, man, I mean, that’s there were three distinct times when I thought, I’m going to die. This is it. I’m dying in Panama. And eventually I saw people from I saw our rescue party coming up from the distance, and they got halfway to me. And then I could see that they were being attacked, too. And then they ran back away.

Joke: So the rescue. So they must have gotten word like someone radioed them and was like, Mayday, we’re getting attacked here. Yeah, okay.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. One of our search, part one of our one of the guys with us who had the fresh legs was able to run out pretty quickly and got word. Yeah, but once the rescue party tried to get back to us, they couldn’t because the bees were just there. Wow. So I just sat there eventually. I don’t know how long it was. Could have been 30s could have been 30 minutes. I don’t know, right? When someone finally got to me, the first thing they did was jammed an EP syringe into my arm and gave me a shot real quick. And then they went further back behind me and tried to get everybody, and everybody kind of started zombie walking towards the front of the jungle. Once we realized that the bees had subsided, right. And then it was just everyone was in shock. Everyone’s throwing up. They’re pulling stingers out of us. I couldn’t keep anything in my body. I was coming out of both ends. It was just bad.

Joke: And then you get airlifted to.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, I get to. They start, I get an IV stuck in me. They’re looking at me. I am white as a sheet, more so than everybody else. And they decided that’s when I needed to be airlifted. So they got this little tiny plane, the land there on this grass landing strip, stick me in it with this IV sticking out of my hand and off I go to Panama, where an ambulance met me, took me through the streets of Panama to a Panamanian emergency room where there was a team of people waiting for me.

Joke: Wow.

Mickey Ramos: And continued to pull stingers out of me.

Joke: And how long were you there for?

Mickey Ramos: I was in that hospital for about six hours until they realized I wasn’t going to die. Yeah, and they sent me to a local hotel, the Trump Panama.

Unidentified Voice: Bell.

Joke: Of all places.

Mickey Ramos: Of all places. And then the production called me later on that evening. They’re like, so do you want to come back and shoot with us tomorrow? No, said man, I can’t even stand up.

Unidentified Voice: Wow. That’s hard.

Joke: So someone must have not gotten a message through.

Unidentified Voice: I felt like, oh, she got stung. By a bee.

Biagio: She got back tomorrow.

Mickey Ramos: Well, on. The funny thing was our fixer, our local fixer person, called my parents. Because that emergency number you always give them. And my mom tells me later that they said, well, we just wanted to let you know your daughter had been stung by a few bees. A few it was over 600.

Unidentified Voice: Wow.

Joke: Wow. Okay, so now you’re at the hotel. How long were you in Panama for before they get you back stateside?

Mickey Ramos: They took. They took me out of the country the next day, 24 hours. But interesting. When you’re on a plane, when you have that much poison coursing through your body, everything puffs up. So my.

Unidentified Voice: Face.

Joke: Puff up. It’s probably even worse then. Yeah.

Mickey Ramos: I couldn’t bend my fingers. I had bites all over my face, I was crying, I was a mess. People on the plane are looking at me like, what’s wrong with that woman?

Joke: Like, don’t sit next to her.

Mickey Ramos: No, I look like I have the plague.

Joke: Yeah. And then when you got home here, how long? How much medical treatment and all of that?

Mickey Ramos: Luckily, Workman Workman comp kicked in for me. You know, they did take care of me. I will say that much. And went to an industrial workplace. Doctor, I now have to use an EpiPen because I’m now allergic to bees. I got it took about a month. It took about a month. The first two weeks was solid Benadryl, so I never knew what time of day it was. I was in and out constantly. Friends came by and brought food and stuff like that to keep me going, but I was not a sight to see. Yeah, it was terrible.

Joke: Yeah.

Biagio: So how long did it take to you? Felt like normal again.

Mickey Ramos: Three weeks to feel normal. Four weeks kind of subsided. And then I had to go get a job because I needed to get out of the house. I was going crazy.

Joke: Yeah.

Biagio: And you weren’t going back to that show?

Unidentified Voice: No.

Joke: So what show did you take next?

Mickey Ramos: Something called living with the enemy.

Unidentified Voice: Low stress. Easy.

Joke: That’s amazing.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, that was fun because it was like, hi. I’m calling on behalf of living with the enemy. Click.

Joke: Yeah. Amazing.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. Almost died. Not a lot. Oh, yeah. And then discovery. Oh, our director of photography. He was the one that ran out on the fresh legs. And he also pulled out his iPhone and was.

Joke: Filming all.

Mickey Ramos: Of it and started filming all.

Joke: Of it. I know I’ve seen the video.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. So I ended up on the discovery website. If you go to, I think there’s a reality blurred article about it. The episode’s called The Swarm. Imagine that. But he’s filming me sticking his iPhone in my face as I’m rolling around on the ground, puking my guts out. And you can see that it’s online.

Joke: Oh, wow. Did they end up sending the cast into that location? Oh, wow.

Mickey Ramos: They told them that night that the crew had been attacked by killer bees, and that things are being done on the island to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Unidentified Voice: Right. What things?

Mickey Ramos: Well, they they told me that they went around the island cutting down those hives. I was like, you don’t know where all those hives are. Yeah, but they did let the cast know. And so that the cast knew what they were getting themselves into.

Joke: Yeah, I had the choice. Yeah, but nothing happened. They were okay.

Mickey Ramos: Nothing happened to that cast. And I’m very happy about that. I mean, I had clothes on and it was awful, right?

Joke: It’s true.

Unidentified Voice: Yeah. They’re right.

Biagio: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Holy cow. Well, so that other people in your party get they got stung, obviously, but not as bad as you. You kind of took the brunt.

Unidentified Voice: Of it.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, I think it was because I was wearing a lotion that had some kind of slight sense to it, and I think I was a little more attractive to all the bees. So everyone else.

Joke: Well, there’s that going for you. You were the most attractive to those bees.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah.

Joke: Great.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. Everybody took hits, you know. But I just don’t think that anybody got over 600 bees, things like I did. It’s at least 600.

Joke: That’s insane.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, it was gross.

Joke: Yeah.

Biagio: Wow.

Joke: But you survived it. You’ve lived to tell the story.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. It’s gotten me a lot of free drinks.

Biagio: Yeah, as well it should, at the very least.

Mickey Ramos: But, yeah, I have to carry an EpiPen now, and that blows. I was never allergic to bees, but I am now.

Joke: Yeah. I mean, if a regular honey bee stings you, how bad do you think it would get?

Mickey Ramos: I could.

Joke: Die, really?

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. Totally lame.

Joke: Lame.

Mickey Ramos: It’s still. You know what? I’m still glad I had the experience.

Joke: Yeah. You do it again.

Mickey Ramos: No.

Joke: So not that good. Wow. That is one of the best in the trenches stories I’ve ever heard. But I’m glad you’re here to tell us.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, I am too. That was close.

Joke: That was close. Other big stories.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. The other one is the Buckwild story. The star of our show, Shane Gandhi. He died at the age of 21. It was on Easter. Easter Sunday.

Joke: And you guys, you guys were filming at the time and had just.

Mickey Ramos: We were off for a few days because it was Easter weekend. So the crew and cast had some time off. And so Shane was at a bar. His local bar on Saturday night, left the bar with his uncle and a friend, and they decided to do a mudding pass, which they always did. They just take their cars through these mud, mud things and he they somehow got stuck in mud and the tailpipe was submerged on his Bronco. And what we think happened is that they he tried to gun the engine and carbon monoxide came back into the Bronco and just put everybody to sleep forever. So we had a big search party going that following Monday because we.

Joke: Were you. So you’re you’re taking your a few days off, but you’re in a local hotel or wherever you’re saying, and you get word that no one’s seen Shane.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. That Monday after Easter Sunday, we were supposed to start back up and we hear from Shane’s parents, we don’t know where Shane is, and there’s no way he wouldn’t have come home for Easter because that’s a big thing. So the parents were worried. So Monday morning turned into a search party rather than shooting for the day. And so we thought he was still alive. We’re just looking for him.

Joke: Do you think he’s passed out drunk somewhere? And yeah.

Mickey Ramos: Those kids were always passed out drunk somewhere, so we just figured no big deal. And then we got word from Shane’s girlfriend that someone spotted his Bronco up on some hill. And that’s when we all took off in our cars to try to get up there. But it’s West Virginia, so not a lot of our cars could get up there. There was only one of our cars that had four wheel capability to get up there. One of them did. I stayed back at the bottom of the hill with the walkie talkie, and they got up to the hill. They found the car. They realized no one inside the car was moving. They opened up the door. Shane was blue. They realized he was dead.

Joke: So crew members found him.

Mickey Ramos: Crew members found him, crew members found him and chains buddy. Joey. Joey’s mom, is the one that had the guts to go and, like, identified. Yeah, and so it was 21 years old, you know. And then it turned. I’m sitting down at the bottom of the hill and I’m walking to them. I was like, what? They said, no one’s moving and I walk you back. What do you mean? No one’s moving and they walk you back. They’re all dead.

Joke: Oh.

Mickey Ramos: And how do you how do you wrap your head around that? This is a 21 year old kid whose life is bigger than life.

Joke: And he’s been filming with him for, what, weeks? Months?

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, we had filmed with him for a few weeks.

Joke: You’ve known him. You guys have built that trust, that rapport, that relationship. And then just like that, dead, dead. And how do you what’s your next move?

Mickey Ramos: The next move is to go into damage control. You know, I took it upon myself to be the MTV representative and stay with Shane’s parents up on the Hill because both his parents were in poor health. So I was like, we need to keep a medic up there and I’ll stay up there with a walkie for whatever happens. Yeah, and some press starts to show up down at the bottom of the hill. So half our crew went down there to deal with that while I stayed up at the hill and just watching his family fall apart as they’re pulling his Bronco down the hill, as they’re pulling his body out, is just. Oh.

Joke: Yeah.

Mickey Ramos: You know, Shane’s mom comes out of the house and just looks up at the sky and starts screaming. Shay and I just start bawling, but it’s like I got to keep it together, and I just got to be there for the family. And then when I got back to the hotel, at the end of the day, I just crumbled. The first person I found, I just into their arms and was just weeping. Yeah, yeah, a lot of emotions working on these reality shows.

Biagio: I mean, at that point, you’re not working on a show anymore. Now you’re just like, now you’re just there to support the family, like you’re I mean, you basically have have become part of their support system, even though you’ve only known them a short time. Right?

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. It’s about being sensitive. It’s about being there for them. It’s not about pushing a TV agenda. It’s just about being human and helping.

Joke: Well, MTV ended up ending the show, canceling the show, right. Because it just didn’t feel appropriate to. Yeah, go back to drinking and partying when something that horrific happens.

Mickey Ramos: A lot of us wanted the show to continue because we wanted to show how kids end up dealing with that kind of situation. But MTV decided to pull the plug, and that was at the last second they were contemplating actually continuing on with the show and changing the way that they did the show, but ultimately they pulled the plug.

Joke: Yeah.

Mickey Ramos: Very sad for those kids because those kids are all working in like air conditioning factories now. And, you know, it’s just.

Joke: Yeah.

Mickey Ramos: West Virginia.

Joke: It is, it is, it’s a it’s you know, it’s a horrible loss for everybody involved.

Biagio: It is. And, you know, I think here’s the thing. You know, you’re extremely prolific. You’ve done a ton of television shows. You wanted the top producers in this industry. You know obviously you’re talking about we’ve talked a bit about like the you know, how complex it can be, the different kinds of shows, things that can go wrong. You’re still in the business, like you’re still doing this. You still love it. Why? You know, why do you still love it? And what would you say to people who are thinking about getting into it?

Mickey Ramos: I absolutely love human beings. If you love human beings and you’re curious about what makes them tick, this is definitely a good business for you. That’s what I love about it. It’s the differences I know that I’ve made in people’s lives that keeps me going. And the creative people who work on these, these shows, it’s just the creative minds that I meet just blow me away on a daily basis. And there’s nothing else I’d rather do. I love working in television, as awful as it can be sometimes.

Biagio: Like when you’re getting stung by 600 bees.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, or when you’re just looking for work and it just isn’t coming around. But it’s like, yeah, I’m a damn good producer. I’m no one’s hiring me. And yeah, there’s a lot that’s rough about the business. But when you’re in the zone, man, and you’re making a change in someone’s life, there’s nothing better.

Biagio: And what do you say to people who are trying to get into it?

Mickey Ramos: Know what your strengths are, because there’s a lot of different ways to work in the business. Sometimes people aren’t people, people. And so I have them do numbers or something like that. If you’re somebody who has a gift of gab and can get into anybody’s brain, then you do what I do. There’s just know your strengths, really figure out what your strengths are, and figure out how to apply that to a different type of job in the industry.

Joke: I think that’s the best advice.

Biagio: I think it is the best advice and I think.

Joke: It requires honesty with yourself.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah.

Joke: You know.

Mickey Ramos: It does because I know a lot of people who are out there doing the interviewing and they’re dealing with talent who should stay completely away from talent. They ruin it. And then there’s some people who all they do is work with numbers all day, but they’re the creative types that should be doing the interviewing. So just know what what you’re good at.

Joke: Yeah. And try it. And if it doesn’t work like, you know, have the responsibility to find a different avenue to work in.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah. And know that you’re going to be broke most of the time.

Joke: Well, yes. I mean, the freelance business is something that most people, you know, don’t understand, right. When you’re maybe it’s changing now, but definitely when I was growing up, freelance wasn’t you know, it’s like you get a job and it’s a steady job and that’s it. And, you know, I read an article recently like millennials, just so many, there’s a much larger percentage that work freelance even in other businesses. But it is definitely a business that requires a certain mindset.

Mickey Ramos: Oh, absolutely. You’re constantly hustling. You’re paying for your own health insurance. You’re always on the ball if you don’t have the ability to network and stay on social media to keep all your friends around you, you’re going to have a hard time. You need to be able to network, and if you love networking, you’re going to do way better than someone who doesn’t like networking.

Joke: And you have to know to save that. You have to know that the money that you make on a weekly basis, while that’s a nice paycheck compared to what other people might be making in the middle of the country, that’s not guaranteed every week of the year, right? So you can’t necessarily live as if that’s what you’re making every week, right?

Mickey Ramos: I make sure my car is only 200 bucks a month for a payment, and I still shop at the 99 cent store for my produce, even when I’m working and have the money.

Joke: Yeah.

Biagio: It’s something a lot of people don’t know. You know, there’s a lot of different ways to work in the business. But the truth is you probably spend more time not working. You do working no matter what side of the coin you’re on. In your case, you’re a producer and you’re looking to go and produce and people shows. You know, we’re a production company. We’re trying to set up shows. So for us it’s always about hustling. What’s the next show we’re going to set up? You know, screenwriters. For them, it’s all about like, okay, what’s my next screenplay going to be? And you spend a year writing it, you hope somebody is into it. And if they don’t buy that one, you hope they hire you for something else. So all of Hollywood is a constant hustle. If you don’t really love it, it’s really not worth it.

Mickey Ramos: Yeah, but the great thing about it is we don’t. Well, you guys own the company. Someone like me, who’s freelance, generally, by the time I hate everyone I’m working with, it’s time for the job to end anyway.

Joke: That’s true, that’s true. You don’t have to deal with, you know. What’s her name in accounting?

Unidentified Voice: Oh, Janice. An account in accounting. Because I was on your show.

Mickey Ramos: You know, my paychecks not the same every week. My hours aren’t the same every week. So there’s a really cool aspect. That’s that. But I got to make sure I get that job, and that’s constant hustling. Yeah, my brother couldn’t do this. No way.

Joke: Well, for anyone looking to hire a producer. Because your gal.

Unidentified Voice: Yeah. Mickey is fantastic.

Biagio: We’ve only got to work together a couple of times, hopefully a whole bunch more in the future. But, I mean, you have always. First of all, you’ve always made us laugh. You’ve always been extremely honest. Talent always loves you. And I don’t know, the office is a lot more fun when you’re around.

Mickey Ramos: Thank you. That’s what I’m talking about.

Unidentified Voice: Yeah.

Joke: I think one of the big things that that we found, it’s hard to find the people who can have fun and but also understand that hard work is necessary, like there’s hard workers who are not fun. And then there’s people who are always bringing the party, but they’re not actually doing the work. Yeah.

Unidentified Voice: You know, you’re that rare combination of.

Joke: Combination of people who, you know.

Unidentified Voice: Not.

Biagio: That you’re not fun and never do work. The opposite.

Unidentified Voice: Yes. You’re trying to do all the work.

Joke: You know, we’re not trying to cure cancer. We’re making television. But we are changing lives in the process. And let’s do it responsibly and with fun. But you’re one of the hardest workers we know. So thank you for that.

Mickey Ramos: And thank you. And the other thing I want to say about working for you guys is you guys give the level of creative freedom that you don’t get in a lot of places. So thank you for that. I realize that once you trust somebody, you let them have a wide berth and that’s great.

Joke: Is it okay?

Unidentified Voice: Good. Yes. I was like, oh, this isn’t so should I not? But that’s what else is doing it. Of course. Yeah. Right. No I’m glad that you feel that way.

Biagio: Because to us we’ve always said we set it on the podcast before. Our goal is hire people that are smarter than us and let them do their thing, you know, because otherwise, what’s the point? I mean, we’re in a creative industry and it’s like, okay, if you want to tour something, go pay for it and make it all by yourself. You know, in this industry it’s great to work together. So I’m glad you felt that way working for us. And I hope, I hope everybody does because we want it. Otherwise, why do it? It’s just it’s just too hard if it’s not going to be fun.

Mickey Ramos: Exactly. We’re not hearing cancer. We work in television. It’s supposed to be fun. Yeah. You know, we’re the creative goofballs.

Unidentified Voice: You go.

Mickey Ramos: And I.

Joke: Love it. We come up with the crazy challenges.

Mickey Ramos: Oh, yeah? Well, I’ve done that too. Oh, yeah.

Joke: Those are fun. All right. Cool. Anything, any other things that we should really?

Unidentified Voice: Yeah. Any parting? Any parting.

Biagio: Words of wisdom before we sign off?

Unidentified Voice: Although those are pretty good. Those are pretty good.

Mickey Ramos: Parting words of wisdom. Think about every other career you could possibly have. That is not entertainment. If any of those work for you, do them. If you feel it in your bones that you must, must, must work in this business, then go for it and don’t ever look back.

Biagio: Heck yeah, well.

Joke: Said that.

Biagio: So there you go. Well, thank you so much for being here today, Mickey. For those of you listening who’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, you know, we do this podcast for two reasons. One, we want people to know what it’s really like to work in the industry. And when we were coming up, nobody would tell us anything. So we just had to lie to everybody to get through the doors and get meetings. So we just tried to tell you what it’s really like from our point of view, you know, to make shows and work in the business. And two, for people who are looking to pitch shows, you know, we do have a portal where people can actually pitch us shows. It is a little bit of a process because our lawyers said that it had to be, and we don’t team up with a lot of people, but we do respond to every pitch that we get, and you can figure out how to pitch us a show and possibly team up with us just by going to producing unscripted. Com signing up for the newsletter and following the directions. Hopefully, Mickey, hopefully you’ll bring us a show or a few.

Mickey Ramos: We’re talking. Yes.

Biagio: We’re in talks.

Joke: Talking. We’ll figure it out.

Biagio: All right everybody, well, thanks for tuning in. We’ll be back in two weeks. Thank you so much, Mickey.

Unidentified Voice: Thank you.

Biagio: This was a this was a much more serious podcast than I had anticipated for all the fun we have. But I think it’s so important. Everything that you said, it’s so true. And it’s stuff that you don’t usually hear people talk about in these interviews. So thank you.

Joke: Speaking of networking, any any places you want people to hit you up at?

Biagio: Oh yeah. Where can people find you?

Mickey Ramos: I’m on Twitter, I’m at Mickey Ramos. Mike k e r a mos. It even fits the song.

Biagio: Why? We have to make sure we follow you. Do we follow you? I don’t know if we do.

Mickey Ramos: I’m new to it. This whole revolution lately is what’s coming up on the Twitter. But I’m on Twitter now. I’m on the wall, I’m shouting. So come find me. Join forces.

Biagio: Excellent. Well, will we at Joe? Can Biagio joke and Biagio will follow you immediately, and hopefully everyone else will do so. Awesome. All right, all right, all right. For those of you looking, we will put this in the show notes, which is going to be producing unscripted eight nine because it’s episode 89. So just head over there and you’ll be able to find links to Mickey and read more about all of her her great stories. We’ll put a link to you getting attacked by killer bees, which is something I never thought I would say on the show. And thanks for tuning, everybody. We’ll be back in two weeks. Bye bye. Bye bye everyone. Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio. Biagio.