How to Get a Hollywood Agent

Announcer: Welcome to producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?

Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???

Announcer: This episode…it’s episode 21.

Biagio: How to get, keep and manage a Hollywood agent with Chad Gervich. Do you have to be one of the big four agencies to have a career? Who controls 80% of the business in Hollywood? Are big agents, good agents.

When are you really ready for an agent? Career versus a hobby. Two things you need to need an agent. Why you should never cold-call an agency.

The agent you really want. Having a vision for your career. Discovering the best styles of communication to use with your new agent. Your number one job after you sign with new agency.

And a little Star Wars blasphemy.

Announcer: Music courtesy of Dave Pelman Music, davepelman.com

Biagio: Hey everybody, she’s Joke.

Joke: He’s Biagio.

Biagio: We’re married who make unscripted film in television and want to help you do the same, hopefully by teaming up with us.

Well everybody get drunk, it’s episode 21

Joke: Yee-haw!

Biagio: Yee-haw! And it’s been a really great couple of weeks for us, you know after having hear for episodes and episodes but our top secret new show, you now know that show is Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne on A&E hopefully you’ve watched the last four episodes now, right Joke?

Joke: Yes because we had two on 13th and two last night.

Biagio: Yes this is like the most fun show to make just about ever, I don’t know if it’s as fun as Foodie Call which is one of our very first shows that we made with our good buddy, Chad Gervich.

Joke: Who’s back!

Chad Gervich: Hey guys!

Biagio: Yes guys, he’s back completing the Return of the Jedi Star Wars Trilogy, it’s like the third Chad Gervich episode. Good news, he’s not going to die in the end. I might. I haven’t even seen those movies. Well you don’t know who dies in the end.

Chad Gervich: Oh, yes.

Biagio: You don’t know that Darth Vader kicked, I mean, never mind.

Chad Gervich: To be fair..

Biagio: Watch Star Wars

Chad Gervich: The Phantom Menace trilogy is so much better than the last ones. I don’t even remember those three.

Biagio: Well, I’m glad that somebody…

Joke: I can’t even make a joke about that..

Biagio: I know it’s tough, it’s tough.

Anyways, Chad Gervich as you know from previous podcasts, he’s done a lot of things that can really help all of you out. He’s back with a book that I know a lot of you are going to want to read because this would’ve been out when we were starting out, I would’ve bought it immediately.

It’s called How to manage your Agent, and this book is really about how to get an agent, how to keep an agent and as the title points out, how to manage your agent, how to make sure that you’re working with your agent and your agent is working with you so you can be successful. Did I get it right, Chad?

Chad Gervich: Yes, sounds great.

Joke: Here’s the thing; the number one complaint that happens in this business from everybody whether they’re actors, writers, directors, you know even below the line crew members is agents. They’re like a necessary evil but do people actually ever like their agent, they usually like them for a little bit like a honeymoon period and then it’s like ughh, do I move agencies? Is it the agent’s fault or is it the agency?

There’s just so many questions and so many kind of negative feelings around agents. So I think it’s really appropriate that you wrote this book because a lot of people have questions about it.

Biagio: Yeah and as a side note Chad is pretty much directly responsible for just about all the agents we’ve ever had. He introduced us to our first agent and that lead to us moving to a much bigger agency with that agent, and eventually lead to us signing with CAA which is one of the biggest agencies in the world. And I just like saying we’re at CAA because I think like it’s where Tom Cruise is, I know Johnny Knoxville is. CAA’s a big agency people.

Joke: So my first question for our audience is, people know about the big four agencies and it’s always about the big agencies and there’s this kind of…

Biagio: And who are the big 4 agencies for those who might not know?

Chad Gervich: CAA, WME, ICM and UTA.

Joke: And so there seems to be kind of a sense that if you’re not at one of those big 4 agencies, it’s just no good is that true?

Chad Gervich: No, not at all. I mean what is true is that those four agencies are massively, massively powerful and probably control 60%-80% of the business in Hollywood. What’s not true is that if you’re not at one of those agencies, you’re nobody or can’t have a career, and what is definitely not true is that they aren’t outstanding and incredibly powerful agents at other agencies.

Also what is not true is that everybody at those big agencies is a good agent. There are some terrible agents in those agencies and there are some brilliant agents at smaller agencies, so it is absolutely not true that you need to be at one of those four agencies to have a career.

And in many ways for many people especially people just starting out being at one of those big agencies can hurt your career.

Joke: So especially starting out, whether you’re new-to-town or somewhere in this country, I know for us when we started, we actually didn’t want to go to those big agencies, so not that those big agencies would have been interested in us at that time they probably weren’t but they don’t really recruit newbies, correct?

Chad Gervich: Right, their priority is the Tom Cruise’s, the JJ Abram’s and the Howard Gordon’s and the Steven Spielberg’s of the world and managing that size of a career is very different, not only in the amount of work that takes but also in the amount of profit. You know you’re going to make much more than JJ Abrams than you are from somebody just starting out.

Joke: From my perspective then again I might be wrong and again it’s specifically about our industry, is they’re looking for people who are established, who are already have kind of a credibility with a lot of the networks who have experience behind them or people who have really have hot properties…

Chad Gervich: They’re looking for somebody they can sell and profit off today.

Joke: Correct.

Chad Gervich: And somebody who’s just starting out even if they are the most talented writer or most talented producer, or most talented actor ever to exist in the history of the world is not usually somebody you’re going to profit off today. That’s somebody who’s going to take nurturing and they’ve got to be introduced to all the buyers and executives and producers around town and that takes time.

Joke: And in their defense, I mean they do build careers, they do take someone from a certain level and bring them up but the level that it starts with is already higher up it’s not just straight off the bus.

Chad Gervich: It does not mean that they don’t find brand new people, in here I’ve interviewed one of the heads of the TV department at WME and he says here, “I don’t think I’ve signed a baby writer in years.” And they’re not looking for those baby writers that take a lot of nurturing and growth, they’re looking for people, they’re looking for stones that are already rolling.

Biagio: Same goes for film makers, for actors pretty much anyone that would want an agent and it’s kind of the same philosophy across the board.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Joke: They help you get you to the bigger levels, to start swimming in the bigger pond with the bigger fishes, but they’re not going to teach you how to swim.

Chad Gervich: Yeah. They’re also for better or worse, very often not going to stick with somebody after a string of failures. You know if you’re represented at a big agency and look careers go through ups and downs all the time and it’s not necessarily a comment on any client’s talents, it’s just the way of the world. And big agencies don’t always stick with people in those cooling off periods.

Every year agencies go through their client lists and they’re like, who’s not bringing in enough money? Who can we cut? Who can we cut? How can we make this client list leaner?”

Joke: And just one last thing, I think on the bigger agencies is this is where the managing your agent comes in to play, if you have a good relationship with your agent and you have trust because when they make those cuts, yes the bottom line is important. But it’s also, do they believe that you still have more money in you, right? Do they believe they can still help you grow, do they believe that maybe this is a cooling off period but we see big things for this person. Then they’ll probably keep you and they’ll probably stick with you. But isn’t that about managing that relationship with your agent in building that trust because they are your partners in your career to a certain extent that if they don’t have trust in you that’s when they cut you.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Joke: Okay, so since most people listening to this podcast probably aren’t right off the bat looking for a top four agency, let’s…

Biagio: Or they might only be looking but they shouldn’t be looking the sign with CAA as their first agent.

Joke: Right, but hopefully this last five means have kind of veered them away now from that.

Biagio: Yeah.

Chad Gervich: Let’s talk about why smaller agencies are good.

Joke: Exactly, so what is it if I’m just barely starting out and I have this drive and this passion, I have a couple of ideas maybe you know I’ve made a pitch tape in my living room, how does a smaller agency maybe break in and how do I get to that smaller agent?

Chad Gervich: Well first of all, one of the advantages of smaller agencies is that they’re smaller. and so you tend to get much more personal attention at a smaller agency. And by the way I actually think that more important than finding the right agency or the right size of agency, is finding the right agent or size of agent.

And I feel like for somebody starting out whether you choose to go with CAA which is huge, and muscular and powerful or whether you choose to go with Roffman which is a boutique literally agency which is very small but also very smart and powerful. Regardless of the size of your agency you want to pick the right agent. It’s all about your relationship with the personal agent, not the company at large.

Joke: And that’s a huge key and that’s number one thing I want to talk about is that’s why when you see if an agent leaves an agency whether it’s a smaller or larger scale clients go with that agent. You even see people leaving CAA to go to midlevel agency because they’re following an agent, it’s because ultimately the company doesn’t answer the phone for you, you know you’re talking to an individual, you’re talking to a person, an agent. That agent has to make phone calls on your behalf, it’s not CAA who’s doing it, it’s your individual agent. So again, finding an agent who believes in you versus an agency is critical.

Chad Gervich: Yeah, a lot of agencies especially the bigger the midlevel agencies will use a team approach where you’re represented essentially by a team of two, three, or four agents but you will always have a point agent and that person is like the coach of your team. And everybody else is a player on that team. In my head just now is trying to think of like a good sports analogy, like a basketball analogy, like that person is the center or the quarterback and now I realized, I don’t know enough about sports to make that happen.

Joke: I could have told you that.

Chad Gervich: I know, but I don’t know about sports but I think quarterback is the right analogy.

Joke: I think you said Shaq O’neil was a football player.

Biagio: You did think Shaquille O’neil was a football player.

Chad Gervich: I did not. I have never thought that.

Biagio: I actually know.

Joke: In 2005. [00:11:10]

Biagio: You did. You’re like, “He’s a football player right, because he’s huge?”

Chad Gervich: No.

Biagio: Yes, you did.

Chad Gervich: No. First of all I don’t believe this and second of all why are you saying this publicly on a podcast in front of an audience that knows he’s a hockey player.

Joke: So wait, so I think we get the team aspect but you know again even though you know there’s a team and a lot of agencies uses a team approach, there always will be that point person.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Joke: And that point person is also when it comes down to making the cuts in the agency that point person is the one who can then fight for you and can say, hey, managing the point person is truly important.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Joke: So back to the smaller agencies in terms of coming in and how do you make that, do you just call up this small agency?

Biagio: Yeah, what do you do?

Chad Gervich: Alright, I will say this first of all and I’m going to say this and I know that 99% of people listening to this are going to hate me for saying this. But if you’re sitting out there and you’ve made some tapes in your living room, or you’ve written some movie scripts, or you’ve written some specs and you’re saying, this is really good work, I am ready for an agent you’re probably not ready for an agent.

A friend of mine is a super successful screen writer and he always says and I quote him in the book, he always says, “If all the people who are trying to get agents and worried about getting an agent would stop trying to get an agent and would stop thinking about getting an agent and just write, they would eventually get an agent.”

Joke: Right and the way that translates in our business in unscripted a lot of times, it’s teaming up with established producers, teaming up with someone so you’re actually now producing. You’re actually getting the experience and so on and so forth because just so everybody knows, our agents will come to us and say, “Hey, who should we sign? Who is moving up in the world? Who do you think is ready?” And so by building relationships with people who have agents, by working with them and getting the experience and building up that resume, you make yourself more attractive.

Chad Gervich: Yes. So I always say and in the book, I feel like the best way, the first and best way to get an agent is to get a job in the industry. And if you’ve never worked and you don’t have a job, I’m sure you still have a million brilliant ideas swimming around in your brain. But you’re still going to get that first job and that means you’ll probably starting at the bottom.

Starting as a PA or as an assistant or an unpaid intern and working your way up but you’re probably not going to get an agent just because you’re living in Omaha and happen have a brilliant idea for a reality show. In fact if you break it down I feel like there are two things that you need to get an agent. One is you need to have some kind of portfolio of great work whether those are scripts you’ve written, or plays that have been produced, or a sizzle reel.

Joke: Fish tapes.

Chad Gervich: Yeah, whatever. And two, you need a strong network of professional relationships and you don’t get that without working in the industry.

Joke: So step one for anybody listening to this podcast, if they’re in the middle of country they have an idea for reality show it’s not go find an agent and the agent will take it out. It’s go start talking to production companies, reach out to them, people like us who do take submissions. And because that’s the hard part there’s a lot of companies are studios and networks saying, we don’t take unsolicited submissions and submissions should not be unsolicited you should have an agent, yet agents don’t want to take on a new client that doesn’t have experience so that’s kind of the conundrum that most people are facing.

Chad Gervich: Yes, but I think look let’s say somebody is sitting in Topeca, Kansas listening to this right now, or Kansas City or wherever. They have a connection with you guys that’s one, but even getting to you guys and selling you guys a show is very hard because you’re very busy, you’ve worked on a million successful shows, your bars is set very high. But I think a lot of people who are not living in Los Angeles are focused of getting to Los Angeles and they’re right. If you want to work in television, get your ass to Los Angeles as soon as possible.

Joke: Unless you want to produce unscripted.

Chad Gervich: But here’s the other thing, but I will say this, even if you want to put yourself unscripted, if you’re living in Kansas, it’s going to be a hell of a lot harder for someone even living in Los Angeles.

Joke: Well, actually in our business…

Chad Gervich: Yes or no?

Joke: Yes. If you want to try and work your way up in the business in terms of being an PA and moving up, absolutely you have to go to the hubs where those shows are being made and Los Angeles is still really obviously a really big hub. Atlanta’s growing and Louisiana there’s a lot of work, Texas. You can find and work in different parts of the country. In terms of producing unscripted where everything right now is about finding great characters, preferably not in LA and New York, your best bet is to look in your own backyard and finding people.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Joke: Now once you’ve found those people it’s about signing them up and reaching out to companies like us and trying to sell the show. If you move here without having those connections laid out we’re just going to send you back to Kansas, to go find those shows.

Biagio: Yeah and honestly I think the best of all worlds is if you know you want to work in the industry, you have really strong ties back home and you can move to Los Angeles and start making connections while you’re developing a potential cast back home you’ve got access to while we don’t.

Chad Gervich: What I was going to say is like, if somebody is sitting in Kansas City and has created a reality show and great talent, sure put them on tape and send it to Joke and Biagio or any other companies you have a relationship with. Most people in Kansas City may have a relationship with you and may have listened to your podcast but they probably don’t have a ton of other relationships.

Like I would say if you’re living in Kansas cCity and you want to be a television producer, whether its reality or scripted or whatever, get a job in the industry in Kansas City. Go work at a local station and that may mean that you start at the bottom, go work at a news show and once you have relationships with your producers and executives in Kansas City, pitch them a local interest show.

You’ll pitch them a show like, “Hey every week we’re going to meet a new local chef and explore his restaurant,” but make connections wherever you are and learn as much as you can wherever you are and grow as big as you can in that market. But I always talk to people who are like, listen my goal is to work in television but I’m a lawyer or I’m this. I can’t just go work at a local TV station, I can’t just stay up and move to Los Angeles. And my response is, oh, okay then you don’t want it that bad.

This is a profession, it’s a career and there are channels and if you’re not willing to make these sacrifices and follow the paths that exist, you can want it but it’s not a priority.

Joke: It’s not a hobby, all of us who are in it have had to go through that rite of passage and it’s not just like a hazing. It’s literally learning, it’s getting that experience and meeting people and networking. And so unfortunately there is not a front of the line pass.

Chad Gervich: I feel people get really insulted sometimes when I say, hey I teach, I love teaching classes and sometimes I’ll say to someone, “You have to decide, is this your career or is this your hobby?” It sounds to me like this is your hobby. And people get really offended and insulted, I wanted this my whole life and I love writing and I love producing and television.

And I don’t think it’s offensive or insulting, there’s nothing wrong with having a hobby, but it’s the difference between going to your day job and coming back and writing when you can at night and loving it and enjoying it. But it’s your creative outlet and saying, nope, I’m pursuing this as a freaking career. And studying how do I get in, how do I take the steps.

If you’re going to be a doctor you would figure out what do I need to do to apply to med school, how do I apply, how do I go, how do I get to the residency that I want and it’s the same thing with this industry.

Biagio: So now for somebody who’s listening to this and they’re like okay here’s the thing I’m making great work and you know we have people listening who don’t want to get into unscripted like Joke and I do but they want to be a writer, or they want to be a film maker. They’ve made a lot of great stuff, they’ve moved to Los Angeles, what do they do? Do they reach out to an agent or do they just

Joke: Do you cold-call an agent?

Chad Gervich: No, I would never ever cold call an agent. What I would do I mean first of all, talk to friends and co-workers who you respect and who share your sensibility and say, “Hey I’m looking for an agent, would you mind looking at my stuff, would you mind passing my stuff along?” Like a referral next to get a job and make your own connections, the second best way to get an agent is a referral and preferably a referral to an agent through one of that agent’s clients. So that’s the second best way.

And by the way, a kind of part and parcel of all of this is if you’re working professionally or even if you’re not yet working professionally and you’re trying to you should be networking at all times. In Los Angeles every night of the week there are networking parties at local clubs, and bars and restaurants and there are great organizations like JHRTS, the Junior Hollywood Radio and Television Society and they have mixers and they bring panels of agents and executives and you can meet people.

Joke: Or you know what we did was we knew we wanted to work with a very specific person, we found out that person was teaching a one day UCLA extension class and we went to go take the class. And then afterwards you find the five minutes to get their attention and it’s all about being politely persistent which was another podcast that we’ll be talking about.

Biagio: Yeah and I think it could be instructive for a second to talk about how Joke and I got our first agents, and by the way it didn’t happen right away because we were the people in our apartment with a ton of great tapes. Chad was our friend who was in the industry who knew agents, he tried to get us some meetings and at first no one want to meet with us.

Joke: Well going back even further though it was during one of those UCLA extension class that we contacted somebody who was teaching it and who was very experienced producer, director in the business. He was nice enough to introduce us to his lawyer, and we went to the lawyer and showed her some of our stuff and proved to her that we won’t embarrass her if she set up some agency meetings. And so she was able to walk us into the Endeavor at the time…

Biagio: Yeah before they merged with William Morris

Joke: Before they merged with William Morris and then we made another good impression that we didn’t make anybody a fool. At the same time they were baby agents and they were a big four or five agency at the time and so they…

Biagio: They weren’t really representing us.

Joke: Which really just meant that if someone would call about us they would acknowledge our existence, they just wouldn’t make phone calls for us. So what would happen is we would make the phone calls and say, we would call production companies and say, by the way so and so at Endeavor knows who we are and then be the end of that. The reason we end up parting ways with the hip pocketing of it all is because ultimately when companies say, “Great, well, have them call me,” they wouldn’t make the phone call.

Biagio: Nobody called but also what we did and this is why we’ve opened up ourselves to hear pitches from people is because you’re basically half lying. Like we could have to call these production companies we’d be like we’re repped by Endeavor which we really weren’t. We knew somebody there.

And finally the production companies would meet with us and they’d watch our tape and they’d say these tapes are amazing, let’s team up. But we had to get through that door and it really was impossible to do it without fudging a little bit. When it actually came time for us to work with this production company they really liked our stuff, they said, “Why don’t you work on one of our projects and if it gets picked up we’ll make you producers on the show?”

So we did, we developed the pitch tape for the project, it sold to A&E it Caesar’s 24/7 and at that point, only at that point when we had a job, we managed to get ourselves a job in the industry where agents were willing to sign us. Because we can call up and say, “Hey, we got a job, do you want to negotiate the deal?” and then all of a sudden.

Joke: Chad called the agency and said, “I have friends who have gotten the job, do you want to sign them up, it’s an easy 10% they’ve already got the job.”

Biagio: Yeah and then they’re like, of course we’ll sign you. So it goes to show that even though you can’t get a job without having an agent, that’s not true.

Joke: But at that point though we made the decision because a lot of people are like, I don’t want to pay my agent on a job that they didn’t get me in it’s like, well we paid our agents the 10% on that job because we wanted the agents.

Chad Gervich: I think first of all I feel like most first jobs are gotten without an agent, and also once you have an agent, most of your jobs will be gotten without the agent. I love my agent and I still get most of my own work. She comes in later and she does the deal or she gets me more money or she gets me better perks or a title or whatever. But most of my jobs I’m getting on my own.

And once or twice a year we sit down, we go over my rolodex, who do you know. But also anytime I meet somebody new, anytime I get a meeting on my own or a lunch on my own, I am telling her so that when I say hey, I just met a writer on a show and she knows I know that person and she can use that then or later on my behalf.

Joke: And that’s key though. Let’s talk really quick about what is the role of that agent because most people I think, they think an agent just gets you work and that’s a big misnomer. That’s not actually the case, it’s like most people through their relationships, through their experience, through their networking get leads on shows or get shows, right? They’re very few agents kind of get you a job.

Chad Gervich: Well, I think a good agent is always trying to get you a job.

Joke: Right.

Chad Gervich: But most of it is going to come through your own networking, your own relationships.

Joke: And at best I feel like an agent will throw your hat in the ring for a job, right they can get you job interviews.

Chad Gervich: They can get you the door but you have to get that job on your own.

Joke: Exactly.

Chad Gervich: But anyway an agent only owns 10% of your business, they don’t own 50% of your business so people should not be expecting their agents to do 50% of their work. The agent owns 10% of your business. Just to jump back for a second to something you just said, I always hear people say, “I got this job around, I don’t want to pay my agent 10%.”

Anytime somebody says that you are such an idiot the reason I hate that is because maybe your agent didn’t get you this job. Maybe your agent didn’t get you even more money at this job. But you know what, your agent probably looked over your contract to make sure you’re safe or what happens six months down the road when you want to get out of your contract and leave this job?

Who’s going to get you out of that contract, when something’s going wrong at your job and you haven’t get the on screen credit that you’re supposed to get, or your paycheck is late, it’s your agent who’s going to battle for you. And that’s what you’re paying your agent for so who cares if your agent didn’t get you the job, your agent is doing all this other stuff in your career and if not now that they’re going to do it later or they did it before.

Maybe you got this particular job because you have a relationship with a particular executive, maybe you have this relationship with this executive because two years ago your agents sent you on a general meeting a meet and greet, you met this executive became friends with them and two years later they finally hired you without your agent being involved. But you wouldn’t have had that relationship if your agent hadn’t sent you on the meeting many months ago.

So I feel people who are saying, “My agent didn’t get this job, I don’t want to pay them,” are ridiculously myopic.

Joke: Yeah.

Chad Gervich: About their relationship with their agent.

Joke: So there were two points in terms of getting an agent, is there another big piece of advice in terms of getting an agent?

Chad Gervich: I think if you’re not working in the industry and you don’t have referrals you can use. First of all wherever you are you can always make something, you have to make something that is so freaking good, the industry can’t help but sit up and take notice, that sounds really easy.

Joke: Prove yourself.

Chad Gervich: Prove yourself. But it’s hard, that does not mean write a play just put it at a local theatre and suddenly you have to write a play and put up a local theatre and it’s going to be a massive hit that is getting press all over the country. And is being looked at Broadway or off Broadway. Write a novel, now it doesn’t just write a novel and self-publish it and send it to an agent, it means write a novel that becomes a bestselling novel. Make an independent film that goes to Sundance and wins an award, or get all kinds of buzz. It’s got to be really good but making something is a great way to prove yourself.

Joke: Great. So I know we are probably running out of time.

Biagio: Sorry, I think people are really interested in the agent end of things and that we make sure we answer their questions the best we can.

Chad Gervich: I think that another mistake that people make is they think whether they’re going to a boutique agency or giant agency, they think I want the biggest, most powerful agent there. I want the department head, I want the guy who represents Steven Spielberg. If you are starting out that is not the guy you want. That guy is dealing with Steven Spielberg who takes up a lot of time and gives him a lot of money and you don’t.

I always feel like the agent you want is the young, hungry agent who, just like you is clawing his way up the ladder and trying to make a name for himself, because that guy is going to fight for you.

Joke: And I think this brings us to our story, in terms of our first agent was that young, hungry agent, new to it. And I think knew young and hungry into the business, we kind of also naïve and you know we were naïve when we went to [00:29:20] like of course you should hire us with one credit. But our agent was naïve in the fact that you know he’s watched Entourage and he’s like, this is how I’d be an agent and he was fighting for us as if we were Steven Spielberg.

To the point where the network executive was like, “What is going on here?” like this agent is fighting so hard for them and Warren is fighting for them, they have no credits but they believed it allright, fine. I give up, let’s just do it. But that executive actually ended up going back to our agent and say, you know you are right. But there is something to getting that young, hungry agent who doesn’t quite know the etiquette yet and who will fight really hard.

Chad Gervich: They do know the etiquette, it’s just that you want somebody who will fight and will stop at nothing, because they’re invested in this too. If they don’t get you a job it means they’re going to get fired or not get a promotion, or not get their bonus or whatever. So they’re invested in your success just like you are.

Joke: Yes, we always say that it’s about the agent, not the agency. So if you find that person who will fight for you, it doesn’t matter what name is on their letterhead. I mean eventually when you’re bigger it does matter because then the power comes in but when you’re starting out it’s not so much about which agency you’re signed with as it is which agent is willing to make those phone calls and make the fight.

Chad Gervich: Yes, now having said that, I don’t think you want to sign with my buddy, Bob who’s never been an agent or is just making his own letterhead out of his basement. You want somebody who has relationships and access to relationships. And one thing that helps young agents who work at the company whether it’s a giant company like CAA or a smaller boutique agency where there are more experienced little agents, those young agents are able to use the relationships of the higher agents. You know if they need to get to somebody at TLC or…

Joke: And they’re getting mentored by them.

Chad Gervich: Getting mentored and that is not happening with the guy working out of his basement.

Joke: It’s all about the relationships with the agents.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Joke: So you want to have an agent that believes in you that will fight for you but that indeed has access to those relationships. I think another big point with young agents and starting out period. And coming back to Chad’s thing of networking is the assistants of today are the agents of tomorrow. The director level people at the network are going to be running the networks in 10 years. So it’s about getting to really know and meet with the people at your level in all aspects of the business because you guys will all grow up together.

Chad Gervich: Yes, and also because people at your level are aware of openings at your level. You know if you’re the head of the TV department at CAA, you’re not really concerned with filling staff writer positions on jobs, you’re trying to get jobs for show runners. But the young agents are the ones with the staff writers who are trying the low level writers and we’re trying to slap them into positions.

Joke: So don’t buy into the glamour, don’t buy into necessarily their status symbols as it is the work they can actually perform. Okay, so now we have an agent, yeah what do we do?

Chad Gervich: Well I think one of the first most important things to do is to and it sounds like a no brainer- communicate and keep your lines of communication open. And I think that means the first time you meet with them, even before you signed with them. First of all have a crystal clear vision for your career and where you wanted to go.

You’re never going to have a career and get an agent if they say, “Where do you see yourself in 10 years or five years?” You know what I want to be writing comedies and also producing gritty reality shows or you know shows like Survivor like big scale raw reality shows. And I want to be writing comedy and also honestly, I wanted to be directing science fiction movies”. Right, that is not a vision for a career, that’s the hodge podge of everything. So know what your vision is.

Joke: Okay, I think part of that has to be, being honest with yourself. It’s is you have to be honest in terms of that vision of where you see yourself because what you just mentioned those are three different departments and those are three different agents. So you have to know are you meeting with a film agent, are you meeting more of a television agent, are you meeting with a reality agent. Like you have to be honest with yourself and also be honest with yourself, I think it’s important to know what your vision is and communicate with that agent but it’s also important to listen to them saying, well that’s realistic and that’s not.

Chad Gervich: Yes, you can say, “I’m a young comedy writer, in three years I would like to have my own variety show that I’m running.” And your agent may say that that’s not realistic to have in three years but saying, “My dream is to someday the near future, have my own variety show like Saturday Night Live.” Like that is a realistic and attainable goal and a legit goal for a young comedy writer that gives your agent something to shoot for and it says to him, okay he’s a comedy writer but he doesn’t want to write Anchor Man.

Joke: Modern Family.

Chad Gervich: He doesn’t want to be on Modern Family, so now I know what kind of jobs to go get him. I’m not going to try and get him a job on Modern Family but I know I’ll to get him jobs on the Leno Show or Saturday Night Live or the Daily Show, it gives him a path to follow.

You should also be open about what your expectations of your agent are, you know talk to your agent as we’re entering this relationship in a lot of ways it’s very much like a marriage. All the things you need to figure out at the beginning and continuously throughout a marriage you need to figure out with your agent.

So talk about how what kind of communications do you like, you know maybe your agent says, “Listen I’m not a good phone call returner, but if you text me or email me, you’ll have answers within five minutes,” And if you can understand that about each other, there’s a cliché, “Oh my agent never called me back.” Well, okay maybe your agent’s not a phone person but if you know that upfront…

Joke: Maybe you call too many times.

Chad Gervich: Maybe you called to many times, but if you know that your agent likes to be communicated with by email then email and say to them how often do you want to hear from me and let your agent say.

Joke: And sometimes agents will say, “We’ll do a weekly call at a set time,” and some agents are like, “You know what, when something comes up let’s talk, let’s try and connect once a week but it could be wherever.” It’s important you’re right in knowing who your partner is and how they like to communicate with you.

Chad Gervich: And knowing how you like to be communicated with. To be able to say, “Listen I have to be very honest, if I email somebody I expect an answer back.” “Here’s what makes me nervous in a relationship,” I think the other important part of Biagio’s looking antsy because we’re going long…

Biagio: Oh no, I thought we’re going well I think that you know speaking of Hollywood showbiz, I think Chad forgot he has a lunch in like eight minutes.

Chad Gervich: Oh I do.

Biagio: So the question is how far away from here is your lunch?

Chad Gervich: Casa Vega it’s like on Ventura.

Joke: Fulton?

Chad Gervich: Is that where it is? Fulton?

Joke: I think so.

Biagio: Anyways, if you are listening to this live you know where Chad would be but you’re not, luckily we’re on tape today..

Chad Gervich: But can I get my one other manager….

Joke: Yeah.

Biagio: Yeah.

Chad Gervich: I think the other thing that is very important, open lines of communication and your job as a client and as a producer of work whether you’re writing or directing is to be constantly making new material to give to your agent. I feel like one of the biggest complaints I heard about clients from agents to managers that I interviewed for this book was that they have clients who don’t produce enough material. And so that doesn’t mean, hey agent, I wrote this great screenplay, now go sell it and then you just sit back and wait for the checks to roll in.

The day you write fade out on that screenplay, you are opening a document and writing a fade in on your next one.

Joke: Because agents are sales people and if you don’t give them a product to sell they can’t sell.

Chad Gervich: Yeah, and not to mention most of the work you do is not going to sell. Most of the work you do is going to function as a calling card that allows somebody to say, “Wow, I really like this young writer, I really like this young producer.

Joke: What else?

Chad Gervich: What else well I’ve been working on this, I’ve got an idea for that. So you need to be, like most of the agents I talked to said things like, I need at least three new pieces of material a year. Now look.

Joke: That’s in the writing biz.

Chad Gervich: That’s in the writing biz.

Joke: In producing unscripted, it’s far more than that.

Chad Gervich: Far more.

Joke: Because it’s just a numbers game. This entire business is a numbers game; you have to produce the numbers for stuff to work.

Chad Gervich: And I think it’s also, I think it’s not only coming up with your own ideas but when your agent sends or calls you. Like my agent will call me and say, “Hey, the Daily Show is looking for writers, you need to put together a packet of material that includes 10 Topical Jokes, and three sketches about this,” when your agent comes to you with those opportunities it’s about being on them quickly.

So like if you’re in a reality world and your agent comes to you and says, “Hey, TLC is looking for shows in this space,” or “There’s a new show in MTV that does this,” it’s about being proactive and being like okay, what can I think of, what can I study to go into this meeting, how can I make myself fit. So that you’re just constantly working, working, working and giving your agent answers or new material to shop you with.

Joke: Well I think as everyone can hear it, this book is going to be a wealth of information and Chad’s awesome for having called it all for us. So to find out more and to get into Chad’s little brain, not a little brain it’s a big brain…

Biagio: That’s pretty big-ish. Big head anyway.

Joke: It’s a big head, little brain.

Chad Gervich: Big head, little brain. Yeah.

Joke: Yeah. To get all the information out of it, how many people did you interview for this book? It’s a ton, right?

Chad Gervich: A ton. Yeah I mean, somewhere between 100 or 200.

Biagio: Including the two of us.

Joke: Including the two of us.

Chad Gervich: Yeah, but I count you guys as one person.

Joke: Yeah, people do. So there’s just so much information in here obviously too much to talk about to this podcast. It’s already running long, so do yourself a favor and pick up the book, How to Manage Your Agent by Chad Gervich – that’s G E R V I C H, I’m sure Biagio will put a link in there.

Biagio: I’ll put a link and the show notes over at ProducingUnscripted.com/021 ProducingUnscripted.com/021, you’ll be able to find the link to the book and all kinds of good stuff that Chad has done. Chad, thank you for coming in. I know we have a lot of listeners that are going to eat this up. I wish I had this book when I was starting out, but then again I had you already when I was starting up, that’s better than the book. I have the real thing people. You’re stuck with the book, I got the real Chad.

Joke: At least he’s doing him a favor and finally wrote it all down.

Biagio: That’s right. Thank you for finally writing it all down and not making me suck it out of your brain while we were dorm mates in UCLA.

Joke: In the meantime all of you, don’t forget, there’s a new episode of Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne, next Monday at 10 o’clock on A&E.

Chad Gervich: Can I say, by the way, how awesome that…

Joke: Aww.

Biagio: Aww.

Chad Gervich: It is awesome. Look I’m a little biased because I love magic.

Joke: You really love magic.

Chad Gervich: I do love magic and the magic castle is my favorite place in the world and I’ve met Andrew a couple of times and he’s awesome. So I was predisposed to like the show but it is awesome.

Joke: Well, thank you very much.

Biagio: Thank you. Way to go, on Mondays at 10 A&E. see the show that Chad Gervich calls the awesome, Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne. Thanks for being here Chad, it’s awesome to see you again.

Chad Gervich: Thanks for having me guys.

Joke: Thank you guys.

Biagio: Take care everybody go get an agent, when you’re ready.

Announcer: Producing Unscripted, with Joke and Biagio

www.producingunscripted.com