Turn a Book Into a TV Show Part 2 - And Then Some

Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?

Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???

Announcer: This episode…

Biagio: It’s episode 19 and Chad Gervich is back for part two of How to Turn a Book into a TV Show. How to make a project work for a network even when it’s totally wrong for them? A trick to get studio execs to approve edgy jokes. Our example involves Chines food.

The biggest reason to shoot your own TV pilot and it’s not because anyone will ever give you money or put it on television. Why it might be okay to get screwed over your first network deal. How we accidentally bamboozled the former president of NBC into giving us a job. And an embarrassing admission from me.

You should see what I could do for $500.

Announcer: Music courtesy Dave Pelman Music, davepelman.com

Biagio: Hey, everybody! She is Joke.

Joke: He’s Biagio.

Biagio: We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same hopefully by teaming up with us.

Welcome back to episode 19. This is part two of our episode with world famous Chad Gervich entitled How to Turn a Book into a TV Show. Is that what we’re calling it?

Joke: If you didn’t listen to part one, you probably should go back to that now.

Biagio: You probably should go back to ProducingUnscripted.com/018 was part one of this two part. We think two part episode we’ll see how today goes.

Anyways, Chad, thanks for coming back.

Chad Gervich: No problem. It’s great to see guys again. I always love coming out here.

Biagio: Glad we can get you back two weeks later. Thanks for making the trip again. Glad you can pencil us in.

Anyways, last week we talked about how Chad bravely and against the odds, and in the face of people laughing in his face, reached out to an author of a book that was completely going nowhere and said, “I think it’s an interesting book and I like to turn it into a TV show.” and got that book sold as an idea at the Style Network. And that’s where we’re going to pick up part two this week because we’re going to talk about once a project is sold to a network, how do you sort of shape that project to work for the network?

It’s because networks buy shows all the time that aren’t remotely right for them. They want to take a shot. They want to figure out can we make this work for us. And in the case of Style Network, a network that was playing to 35 plus educated women, taking a shot on a book called Cook Your Way into Her Pants, that was primarily aimed at men seem like long shot.

Joke: You sell the show and now you know that there’s a dreaded business affairs time lull where you guys are working out your deals and then what was the next step in terms of either finding a show runner and that kind of stuff?

Chad Gervich: The next step was finding a show runner – a producer who can oversee every aspect of the show from casting to set design, to writing, every little nitty-gritty dirty detail.

Joke: Someone who’s living the show day in and day out.

Chad Gervich: Yes. And this was being produced by the Little Field Company which is Warren’s production company. But as the head of a production company, your job is to oversee many projects. That are all at different stages. Some are in development, some are on the air, and some you’re just conceiving.

And every show really needs its own captain that is a 100% dedicated just to that show. That person is never usually the Warren, the head of the company. They hire a show runner or another show runner, another producer, or a production company to steer only that ship.

We started meeting with several different producers and production companies. Some were people that Ian Style had recommended to us because they’ve worked with them before. Some were producers of production companies that we knew and already had relationships with. And others were people or companies that came to use through agencies or managers that we had relationships with.

And we would call them and say, “Hey! We have this show that we just sold to Style. Here’s what it is. Here’s what we’re looking for.” And then they would send over resumes and suggestions of people.

Joke: And then what happened?

Biagio: That’s going on in one universe. In another universe, Joke and I are actually producing our very first television show where we’re producers on a TV show.

Joke: We were producer-directors on a show called Caesars 24/7 for A&E and we were literally living at Caesar’s Palace during this entire time.

Biagio: That was our first real job in the industry. And very quick side note, we got the job because much as we tell many of you to do, we had gone out with our own show ideas, we teamed up with the production companies on some of our ideas. They liked our work and said, “Hey! Why won’t you develop this idea for us? If it goes, we’ll make you producers on the show.” That show became Caesars 24/7 and now we had our first official credit. Just one. That was all we had.

We’re off at Caesar’s and you’re trying to set up this show.

Chad Gervich: I would just also on a quick side note to point out how cool it was that I got to visit you guys. I came to Vegas for my bachelor party.

Biagio: That’s right.

Chad Gervich: Which Biagio, did you go with the concert with us?

Biagio: I didn’t go to the concert but I did bump into you and all of your friends. I accused one of your good friends of being your brother. “You must be the older Gervich?” and he’s like, “What are you talking about?”

Joke: Did we get you a cabana?

Chad Gervich: Yes, we had a cabana at Caesar’s Palace and you gave us like a behind the scenes tour of the Caesar’s

Joke: Oh we took you into Towels?

Chad Gervich: I think so.

Biagio: We showed him the secret cafeteria that lives deep under Caesar’s.

Chad Gervich: That was awesome.

Joke: Belly of the beast.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Biagio: We had just finished up that – our very, very first gig in the industry.

Joke: It was right around thanksgiving. We had just come back from Vegas. It was the end of November. We were actually visiting my parents at Santa Barbara. We got a phone call from Chad saying, “Hey all! When did you guys get back?” And we were like, “Hey! We just got back now. We’re back.”

Chad Gervich: Warren and I had been meeting with lots of producers as I said. And all the producers we met with were very talented and very qualified. And we wanted somebody who could execute…

Joke: Very experienced.

Chad Gervich: Very experienced and we needed somebody with experience. We also needed somebody who was funny because the show was a comedy. And we met with lots of people who on paper totally fit that bill. To me this is like the most important part of picking your partner. Part in parcel with you need somebody who has the experience, the knowledge, the know-how, and the resources to physically execute the show.

None of the people we had met with saw the show the same way we saw the show which doesn’t mean they would have delivered a bad show but they would’ve delivered a different show. I feel like we, by we, I mean I because it was like my baby. I had a very specific vision for what this show was the show’s point of view, the show’s attitude. And I’ve known you guys for ten years almost at that point.

Biagio: No. Come on! We’re not that old.

Joke: Eight.

Biagio: Come on! We’re not that old.

Chad Gervich: Eight years?

Biagio: No.

Joke: 1996 to 2004

Chad Gervich: We went to UCLA at 1943.

Biagio: Oh my god! We are like a hundred years old.

Chad Gervich: We’re a hundred years old. But no obviously I know you guys. I’d seen work that you had done and it wasn’t —

Joke: Work by the way that we have just done ourselves that never made it to air.

Chad Gervich: Yes. It wasn’t professional in the sense that you’ve been hired to do it.

Biagio: A super quick side note because a lot of people ask us, “Should I produce my own television pilot? Should I produce my own pitch tapes?” And when it comes to pilots we generally say, “No.” Whatever you do, don’t waste money making a pilot because nobody will ever air the pilot, unless -

Joke: You can make the pilot for $500 or less which is what we did.

Biagio: We did on two different pilots. We made for under $500 just the two of us. And then you have something to show to prove you can do it. Don’t ever expect to sell that or get your money back because you won’t. No one will take a finished pilot and put it in the air. But —

Joke: You can show it to people like Chad.

Biagio: You can show it to people.

Chad Gervich: It is like writing a speck pilot. It’s a calling card. It’s a sample of your work. It’s not a product to be sold.

Biagio: We have done, the two of us, Joke and myself we had done two 22 minute pilots that we wrote, shot, directed and edited, sound mixed, and colour corrected and everything. It was just the two of us. We did two of those and ten pitch tapes, a bunch of them of which we’ve shown Chad all of them. And at some point he showed those to Warren Littlefield, his boss.

Chad Gervich: Even though you guys hadn’t had a show running gig yet and you were just coming off of your first show, I was confident that these guys can do this. They haven’t necessarily done it before but I believe in my heart of hearts that they can do this. Almost more importantly than that, at least for me, whenever we were together we have a great time.

I feel like we have similar sense of humours. We like the same movies. We would laugh about the same things and make the same jokes. Aside from the fact that I knew that you can execute it, it was like, “These guys will get it. These guys will get like nobody else has gotten it.” That is why I brought you guys in and I probably showed Warren some of your work beforehand like your pilots and I did not tell him that they were just pilots you did on your own, as homework projects.

Joke: That they never made it to air.

Chad Gervich: They never made it to air but they looked impressive.

Joke: They look like they could be on the air.

Chad Gervich: They look like they could be on air. And we met with you guys and he loved you. Then we went to E!, to Style and said we found our guys.

Joke: And this is where the other big part of finding a show runner comes in to play. They need to be network approved.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Joke: You have to find someone that’s network approved. And while we share the same sense of humour and you had seen our work and you believed it that we could do it, for network we were a big gamble because we did not have the experience, we did not have the resume, and they didn’t have the eight years of us being friends.

Biagio: As a matter of fact, there were like, “Who the hell are you?” I even remember going in and meeting with Ann Lewis, God bless her, the executive who was on the show at the time and her just being like, “Guys, I got to be honest. You have a resume with one credit.”

Joke: And we said, “Yeah but we made similar stuff like in our living room. You really should look at that.”

Biagio: I remember saying, “You should see what I can do for $500.” She was like, “You are out of your freaking mind.” I never forget I just looked her in the eye with all the confidence in the world by the way. I don’t know where I got it from. “But listen, I get it. You are like who are these kids. Here are the tapes. Watch them. You’re going to be impressed.” This woman who had been in the industry forever shouldn’t even take us seriously but Warren and you were fighting to the nail for us.

Joke: And that’s the key. It’s being at the right time at the right place. And I think part of what got us this opportunity is one, obviously Warren and Chad saying, “We want to do it with these people.” And ultimately Warren saying, “That’s it. Either you do it with these people or we’re kind of done. We don’t want to meet with another 20 companies. We’ve gone through the research. We’ve looked at everybody else. These are the ones we’re going to do it with.”

I believe the reason Ann ended up saying okay is because Ann and Lisa who are the actual executives overseeing the day to day stuff. And Ted was the president and he’s not involved in the day to day of the shows. These two women are going, this book does not make any sense for us whatsoever. This is a pet project for Ted with Warren because they’re buddy buddies back in the day and they want to hang out. If they want to blow this opportunity on these two newbies who have zero experience, what do we care?

They gave us a pilot and very little money.

Biagio: We were making less than some of the editors on the show. We were making less than someone like the associate producers who were making nothing.

Joke: That was part of where the network finally said okay is because we had no experience. They squeezed us to the point where looking back it’s kind of ridiculous. We didn’t care because for us this was a huge opportunity.

Sometimes you have to understand why am I doing this show. Am I doing it for the credit? Am I doing it for the experience? Am I doing it for the money? And we clearly were not doing this for the money.

Chad Gervich: Can I just add one other thing?

When I brought you to Warren, I had confidence in you guys because a, I like you and I’ve seen your work. It sounds like maybe a little point but I feel it’s maybe not that little. I had also gotten you guys meetings. I had worked on Star Search and my boss Andrew Golder was the show runner and I had introduced you to him and he had been super impressed. I can’t remember if there were any other people but the point of that is it wasn’t just me saying, “Meet my friends. I want to do it with them. I believe in them in my heart.”

Along the way, there had been other professional validation. While it’s important that you pick someone who gets the show the same way you do. And you pick someone who you believe can do it. It’s also not just, “Hey! My friend’s an editor in his bedroom.” It was like I had other reasons that helped my confidence and my belief that these guys can do it.

Joke: We had already kind of not embarrassed you.

Chad Gervich: Yes.

Biagio: A couple of takeaways here. Number one, don’t expect people to introduce you to their bosses just because you’re friends with them. We’d worked our assess off building a repertoire of tapes granted they were never aired. But they look really good. They look like they could’ve aired. Number two, when you get offered of your first gig, you’re going to get raped. It’s just the way the business works.

You can either take no money and be like, “This is going to be an awesome experience and I’m going to get the credit that I need to move my career forward,” or you’re going to walk away because you think you’re not getting paid enough and your career is not going anywhere. That’s the first set of takeaways.

The next takeaway, and this is really an important part of this episode. And I want and I want you people to get this because most people don’t realize this. A network will buy projects sometimes that aren’t right for them. Well, guess what. It’s up to you to figure out how to make that project right for them.

That sounds good in theory…

So once me and Joke got on board together with Chad, the first thing we did we watched every single TV show on the Style Network. We watched all of them. We’re like, “What kind of shows are they buying? How would a show like this live on the Style Network?” because you can’t go and take all these offensive things from this book and put them on the network for women.

Joke: We had to find a way of changing really the heart of it from Cooking Your Way in to Her Pants to somehow into Cooking Your Way in to Her Heart. We were still going to find the guy who needed help. It wasn’t just going to be by getting laid. It was going to be about a guy who needs to get to the next step in his relationship. Whether that was the first kiss or whether that was the first getting laid, or whether that was moving in, or whether that was proposing, or whether that was trying to get a second chance.

As you’re opening that up, you realize now you have different episode, right? It’s not every episode that’s the same thing. We added a makeover element. There wasn’t a single style show that didn’t involve make overs. We’re like, “Oh! We can maybe add someone to our cast that’s going to make the guy over maybe make his place over.” It’s a little more female friendly.

Biagio: Especially the Style Network was living on makeover shows at the time. Every hit show on Style Network had a makeover element. So we put one of those in.

Joke: We had to figure one of those in. Over all, by kind of shifting the focus a little bit but still keeping some of the edge which we did in terms of keeping the menu titles. And really mostly this is to the next point is casting our hosts.

Chad Gervich: The hosts. One of the things that we had really like in the book was it gave you these very sneaky tricks like swap out the soy milk for whole milk. And while we didn’t put in things that seemed kind of devious and underhanded like that, it did seem like it was important to put in tricks that people that don’t think of.

Joke: Takeaways.

Chad Gervich: Takeaways but sneak takeaways.

We called them dirty little secrets I think, right?

Biagio: Yes.

Chad Gervich: And it was ways of, “Oh, you can impress a girl by if you’re having tacos cooking tortillas on an open flame on the burners of your stove.” It was like little things that would be impressive and sneaky. And even though they weren’t kind of devious and underhanded like making a girl think she’s drinking soy milk instead of whole milk just so you can get in her pants. They were kind of these fun sneaky impressive things. That was a big part of keeping the edge and the tone.

Joke: Yes. Those things and then the title of our menu because every guy got the option of what kind of meal to make. But we would always have funny meal boxes. It will be like Thai Me Up.

Biagio: If it was Thai food, then it would be Thai Me Up. T-H-A-I Me Up

Joke: Tour de Pants.

Biagio: Tour de Pants was a good one.

Joke: Yes. We’re not going there.

Chad Gervich: Going where? What do you?

Biagio: I’d never forget Chad would pitch these titles for the network executive and some of them I can’t even repeat.

Joke: We can’t repeat those here. We cannot repeat those here.

Chad Gervich: Yes we can. It’s the internet.

Biagio: Tap that Bass. That was actually on the show.

Joke: We were able to get away with Tap That Bass I pitched it up because Chad has just pitched out two titles.

Chad Gervich: Can we tell the story?

Biagio: Tell the story.

Chad Gervich: And to be fair, I can’t take credit for them because Brad Wollack who now writes for Chelsea Handler was our writer.

Joke: Who’s a star on the Chelsea Show, yeah.

Chad Gervich: Had come up with these titles and did Brad go in the pitch meeting with us?

Joke: No.

Chad Gervich: Was it just me and you?

Biagio: It was just you two and I heard about it after.

Chad Gervich: And so we went to Ann Lewis, our executive to pitch her the box titles for this episode and we had some kind of Asian meal, a Chinese meal. And she said, “Okay. What are we doing for the Chinese meal?” and I’d said in a totally straight faced. I said, “Oh, for that we’re going to go for Eat My Vachina.”.

Joke: And then it was silence in the room. I was slightly mortified but laughing on the inside. She was slack jawed going, “Did this actually just happen?” and Chad, perfect comedic timing straight face goes, “Eat My Vachina. You know like China, the country?”

Chad Gervich: And she was like, “No.” And then we said, “Okay. Well then how about Pacific Rim Job.” I think at that point we probably just cracked up.

Biagio: That was awesome.

Joke: And then she was like, “No.” and then I was like, “How about Tap that Bass.” and she’s like, “Sure. Whatever.”

Biagio: By the way, how was Tap that Bass a Chinese meal?

Chad Gervich: No, that was a different one.

Joke: It was just going to be a fish meal.

Biagio: Okay.

Chad Gervich: By the way, a little takeaway here. I’ve worked on scripted shows where we do this in the writer’s room where you want a certain joke that you know that is on the line. And so you first put into the script or pitch a joke that you know is way past the line and they are like, “Absolutely, not.” And you pitch a joke that’s a little more past the line and they’re like, “No. Sorry.” and then you pitch those that was on the line and they’re like, “Fine. We’ll accept that.”

Biagio: That is an excellent tip.

Joke: Check out episode five of our new show. We kind of did the same thing. Put in everything bits and pieces and “No.” And you’re like, “Let me keep something.” and they’re like, “Fine.” And you’re like. “Yes!”

Biagio: Anyway, to wrap things up here, I think that the most important points that we want you to take away is when you manage to sell a property to a network – and you will. If you’re listing to this podcast, you do what we tell you, the important thing is a project right for the network. If it’s not right work the network, figure out how to make it right for network. That’s one important takeaway.

Another one. Should you shoot your own pilots? Should you shoot your own pitch tapes? Yes, I think you should. You should do them to get the experience of making them. Don’t ever expect anybody to air them but it’s how you’re going to sell your ideas. If you don’t have television shows in the air, someone like Chad or Warren Littlefield can look at you and say, “Hey! You know what. I could see how you could do this.” That’s the real value in making some tapes.

Joke: One last thing to wrap up foodie call though is what ended up happening is, our executive kind of left us alone because they didn’t believe in the project. We did do our research. We knew that if we wanted a serious pick up, we have to ultimately convince those two women who were part of the target demo that this show was right for them because they’ve been tainted by the book.

We had to make sure that they got it. We produced a killer pilot that we listened to them. I don’t know if you remember that? They were watching it in Lisa’s office and we were down the hall. And we heard them laugh at the really key point, the gasp and the laugh at her act two out. And we were just like, “Yes!” And it’s one of the fastest pickups we’ve ever gotten because within 30 days, we want to see release.

Biagio: Yes. We had 10 episodes immediately. And it was great because when that season was done – and this is the very first time that I’m ever going to tell the story in public. I’ve been threatening to tell if for years but guys, this a true classic Hollywood story right here.

Joke: At the end of the series, all of us producers – the three of us and Warren – take out our two hosts Rossi and Michelle out for a kind of celebratory dinner. I think it was at Katana. And we’re sitting there. There were some toasts going around.

Biagio does a big toast saying, “Thank you so much Warren. You believed in us. You gave us this chance.” And Warren said…

Biagio: Warren looks at me and he goes, “Well, it wasn’t that big a risk. I mean it’s not like you guys have never done this before.” and I said, “No, actually. It’s a lot like that.”

Joke: Wait. He goes, “No, I saw all those shows you’ve done. He showed me all those trailers, all those promos, those two pilots.”

Biagio: And I go, “Warren, no. Those weren’t real TV shows. Those were just ideas for TV shows. Me and Joke made those in our living room.” And I never forget this look of horror that came over Warren’s face and he turned white.

I remember he had his fork halfway to his mouth with like a hunk of meat out of it and he couldn’t even put it in his mouth. And he put the fork down and he just stopped. He put his head down and he looked up at me and he goes, “You can never tell anyone this story.”

Joke: Sorry Warren.

Biagio: Now here we are, all these years late, I’m finally telling it. And there you go people, sometimes a lie of omission, even if you don’t know that you’re lying by omission and a little bit of naiveté and a little bit of ballsy-ness on your part just might rocket you in to your own company.

Joke: The big key here though is —

Biagio: We backed that up.

Joke: Right. Is that you need to be ready when these opportunities present themselves. We worked our butts off. We were not sleeping during that pilot, during that entire show. We were at 2 am driving DVD screeners around to the executive’s homes.

It’s one of those things where if you get that opportunity, you need to deliver. And I think in that moment, Warren realized I didn’t even know I was gambling but I did. Thankfully it paid off. And I don’t have egg on my face. But boy, how this could have ended badly if these people hadn’t come through.

Again, for all of us who are out there trying to make it, when you get the opportunity, you better come through. Otherwise, people will be less likely to take opportunities on newcomers ever again.

Biagio: Yes. Take chances on newcomers.

And that my friend is the real lesson. When you get the opportunity, don’t blow it. Luckily for us and Luis, the executive was so happy with us she actually gave us a company card, something that’s unheard of and very difficult to get your first company card.

Joke: She didn’t give us more money.

Biagio: She didn’t give us more money. She did give us a company card which is -

Chad Gervich: By the way, a company card is not a business card that you hand to someone.

Biagio: No. It’s a card at the end of the episode when you see the, “Hey! It’s Joke Productions.” That’s really hard to get people. You don’t get that on your first show. You do a lot of shows before you get that.

She gave us a company card. We were able to launch our company. We started selling our own shows and the rest was history. And that’s why I always say Chad Gervich is responsible for our career. Although, Chad very humbly says that he’s only 90% responsible for our career.

Chad Gervich: 92%.

Biagio: Alright Chad. Well, listen. We’re going to have you back I think in a couple of weeks because if I’m not mistaken, you got a new book about to drop.

Chad Gervich: I do. Well, yes.

Joke: Tease them. What is the book about?

Biagio: And the book is about me and Joke, right?

Chad Gervich: Yes. It’s about you guys and it’s called The Hobbits.

Joke: Wait, wait. I’m not the hobbit.

Chad Gervich: No, you’re not. You’re a hobbit by law. You’re a hobbit-in-law.

Joke: I’m a hobbit by marriage. The hobbits are Biagio and Chad, our friend Rick who is a really successful writer on Suits, and then Brad Wollack who is a very successful star comedian and writer on Chelsea Handler.

Chad Gervich: But I don’t Brad and Rick have actually met.

Joke: They haven’t?

Biagio: No. I don’t think they’ve ever met.

Chad Gervich: I don’t think so.

Joke: So there are always three hobbits at a time.

Chad Gervich: Well, I feel like the original three hobbits, like it came from that picture when…

Joke: The Renaissance Fair.

Chad Gervich: Yes. Don’t laugh. I don’t know why you’re laughing. Yes, we occasionally go to Renaissance festivals.

Joke: We went once. You go every year.

Chad Gervich: I do not go every year. I have gone twice since we all went and took that picture. And I will go again. There is nothing wrong with that.

Biagio: And as we spiral out of control, I would like to say for the record. Chad’s book is not actually called The Hobbit or about me and Joke. The name of the book actually is…

Chad Gervich: How to Manage Your Agent.

Biagio: How To Manage Your Agent. Something that I get a lot of questions about.

Joke: Do you also talk about how to get an agent?

Chad Gervich: I do.

Biagio: Chad’s new book, How to Manage Your Agent inside secrets I’m not only getting but keeping and…

Chad Gervich: Working with.

Biagio: Yes. Working with your agent. Until next time. Chad thanks for being here

Few last minute things: if you’re going to Real Screen Summit, the gigantic unscripted TV convention in Washington D.C., at the end of January and would like to try to meet up with me and Joke, just reply to any email from our newsletter with the subject line Real Screen and we’ll see if we can meet up. If you don’t want already have the newsletter, sign-up at producingunscripted.com.

Now our show, Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne, will premiere Monday, January 13th at 10:00 p.m. on A&E. Lots more to say about that in upcoming eps.

And thanks again to Chad Gervich, for being here today. If you want to check out his books, How to Manage your Agent, or Small Screen Big Picture, they’re available from anyone who sells books. And we’ll post links to all of this at the blog post for this episode. Thanks everybody. Catch you next time.

Joke: Bye. Happy holidays

Biagio: Happy holidays.

Announcer: Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

www.producingunscripted.com