Making Truly Independent TV with Filmmaker Brian Speciale

Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?

Biagio: Biagio. Who did this episode? It’s episode 119 and we’re back with TV producer and entrepreneur Brian Special. Last month we told you about his Shark Tank success today. Hear about his unique time behind the camera in the world of truly independent television. Learn how much it costs to buy airtime from a TV network like NBC. What’s it take to find sponsors? And how easy or hard is it to get them to sponsor your show? Why? Being a hands on producer is crucial in time by television. What it’s really like putting your show on TV all by yourself. Plus, Brian shares some great advice for first time producers. And does joke have something against having fun in the sun? As soon as you said pool.

Joke: Party, I was like, oh no. Oh, God. It’s like.

Biagio: Music. Courtesy Dave Pelman. Music Dave Pelman.com. Hey, everybody. She is Joke.

Joke: He’s Biagio.

Biagio: We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.

Joke: Hopefully by teaming up with us.

Biagio: All right. Well, we are so excited to be back for the second part of our double episode with Brian special. Now, Brian is the most amazing producer I’ve never worked with. We’ve tried we he we met Brian through the portal. He pitched us some terrific, unbelievable shows, some of the best pitch tapes we’ve ever received, and we’ve come close to.

Joke: Show that we never sold jokes.

Biagio: Parents. Favorite show that we never sold. And you know which one it is? Brian, I don’t want to say because we might still sell it, but her parents still ask us about that show, so that hurts. They don’t understand why it’s not on the air. Frankly, neither do I. But we’re working on it. But what was so amazing is. And when we got to know, Brian and I found out how he was producing television, I almost fell off my chair. And let me tell you why. One of the biggest sort of like, unicorn myths in the TV industry. You know, you hear people talk about it, but you never actually meet anyone who’s ever done it. Is that you can go to a television network by the airtime and then sell your own advertising, and at least a few times a year somebody tries to tell us that that’s the model they want to go with. And we’re always like, dude, that’s never, ever worked for anybody except for one guy. Brian special. So Brian, like, first of all, how did you how did you get into this idea of buying airtime and then how did you actually manifest it and make it happen?

Brian Speciale: Man, talk about a long, sordid story guys. Time by TV. Oh my gosh, I didn’t think I’d have to talk about this ever again. It’s like the truth. But, you know, it’s this is one of those things for me that was born out of necessity. So I was working in the outdoor television space. We’re talking outdoor channel, sportsman channel pursuit. There’s there’s several different outdoor networks. And that is those networks, business models for 95% of their shows, maybe 98% of their shows, they might have a couple that that they pay to do. But the vast majority is outside producers who come in and they have their ideas for their shows and the networks like, great. You buy the airtime from us, you pay this amount, you get this many commercials to sell, and we’ll put your show on TV. That’s the time by model that all of the outdoor networks go with. I don’t know anything except outdoor TV, so I’m sure there are different kind of, you know, specifics with other networks, but outdoor TV, that’s how it works. And this for me was born out of necessity because again, I was working in the outdoor industry for another production company, decided to start my own production company. And this was kind of the way this was going to be kind of my way in. I was going to do the time by model, which I had become familiar with, and then try to work my way into the mainstream things that that you guys do. That was the goal didn’t necessarily work out that way, but I did manage to get six seasons out of out of doing the time by model. I would honestly not recommend it. It’s very, very, very, very difficult, but a lot of people have significant success with it. I wouldn’t say I was the most successful. I would say I was one who was just able to, you know, keep paying the bills by by doing it. It wasn’t the most lucrative model, but it worked for a while. It’s a tough it’s a tough, tough business.

Biagio: It is now. Now you go you go to the network, these these smaller networks that do this business model and you pitch them the show and they’re like, okay, we’ll give you X amount of dollars. You know, you can sell this many commercials. How do you start contacting advertisers at the point that the network help you, that you have to find your own advertisers? What was that like?

Brian Speciale: It’s just wonderful because you’re competing with the network for the advertisers, and you’re also competing with every other Tom, Dick and Harry who’s doing the time by model for the same advertising dollars. It is extraordinarily difficult. Again, speaking for the outdoor industry. So I would go to the industry like trade shows where all the where all the, you know, the big gun companies were, which is what I was soliciting. And that to me, to, to a guy who’s basically an introvert and doesn’t really want to be a salesman. That was the hardest part of the job. I loved, loved the production part because you were left completely. This is the advantage of timing by model. You’re left completely alone. The show is going to be even when you pitch it to the networks. If it shows, never turn out exactly the way that you see them on paper or when you sizzle them, they just they just never do. But that’s okay, because it’s your show and you’re paying the network. You’re essentially the customer. So there aren’t any notes coming back from the network guys, you know nothing. They don’t they don’t come and try to tell you. Hey, you need to change this. You need to change that. They don’t care as long as you’re as you’re you’re writing them a check.

Biagio: Well that’s nice. At least you get that out of it.

Brian Speciale: It’s a nightmare, guys. It’s for me, it was the. It was just I was a one man band. I did all the production. There were times when I was doing even all the shooting for my show, just being a true one man band and trying to do, you know, a 13 episode season. That’s a lot. But then you’ve got the entire other side, the business side, which is the only way that you can get lucky enough to be able to produce a show is to be able to find the money. So that takes up a lot of time to and it was extremely difficult. You’re trying to sell, be creative and sell these different sponsorship packages and trying to make yourself stand out with product placement, product integration, you know, basically doing anything you can to entice these advertisers to bite. And man, it was it was hard. We scraped by for, for several years. But I do not miss it, not one bit.

Biagio: And for those who didn’t hear it last month, Brian recently went on Shark Tank is one of the most successful winners ever and is on track to do $70 million in sales this year. So I would say things turned out pretty good for you.

Brian Speciale: That hasn’t been bad. I don’t know what time by TV had to do with Shark Tank, but I’m sure I could find something if I tried hard enough.

Joke: How did you know what to ask for in terms of from the network? You know, what price you were willing to pay and then from your advertisers?

Brian Speciale: Yeah, I had a little bit of Intel from the previous job, so I wouldn’t want. This is not something I would ever have gone into just cold without having known anything. That’s I don’t know how anyone would would do that, but I had learned from my previous production company a little bit of how it worked, and maybe a little bit on the pricing structure and how much you ask for these sponsorship packages, and that was it. And then just take that information, you know, create, create some decks, create some sizzles, take them out and hope someone bites. And some people did and a lot of people didn’t. But we managed to squeak by for a while.

Biagio: Wow. That’s amazing. So you did six seasons. Did you get was there was there a season that was like a key season when you felt like you turned a corner and things got a little bit easier, or was it like a struggle? All six.

Brian Speciale: Would have thought so, because I think I was producing a very high quality product, especially for the outdoor space where it’s a lot of guys just sitting in the woods waiting while they while they hunt something. This was an action packed show. It featured the best competition shooters in the world. I thought I thought it was great, and I still love that you’re dealing when you’re dealing with anything, when you’re when you’re dealing with the best in the world, that what they do, I mean, it’s it’s awesome. It’s great. At least I thought it was. But it was hard to sell. It was a hard sell. And maybe that’s just a testament to how much I suck as a salesman. I don’t know. I mean, that that probably has something to do with it because I it’s the last thing I want to do as a producer. I don’t want to be outselling advertising packages. And yeah, it was that was I mean, it was a true nightmare for me. It truly was. I hate to be negative like that, but if you’re going to get into the time by world, this is a big part of it. And again, there are a lot of very, very successful companies that have had chosen for for 20 seasons that have just found the secret sauce and the formula and, you know, and are ingrained in that, in that space, the outdoor industry. But, you know, I was never able to get myself all the way in and, and stay there. It’s just tough.

Biagio: It just goes to show, I mean, how difficult the industry is, you know, really from every angle, you know, you made a great point, which is that like as producers, you know, we’re storytellers. We love shooting pretty pictures and editing great tapes and to have to deal with spreadsheets and, you know, putting together packages. And I mean, for a lot of and a lot of people I think, don’t realize that because when they’re like, oh, we’ll just buy the airtime and sell advertising, it’s like they think there’s some magical person that’s going to pop up that’s going to do all that sales for you. And there’s not.

Brian Speciale: Right. It’s, you know, it’s like anything else in life. It’s who you know. And if you know someone who you know, if I would have known someone at one of these big companies that would have bankrolled been been our title sponsor for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then every other sponsorship we got would have just been gravy. That would have been great. But that’s that’s not always. That’s not always how it works. And it’s a big risk because you you’re kind of when you when you sign up for one of these deals. I remember my first one was with verses, which is now NBC Sports Network. And I was like, oh, this is great. There’s not very many shows that are accepted on NBC Sports Network. So I’m going to go there and that’s going to be what gets the advertisers. So I made this deal and I’ll never forget it. I signed up for a full season for four. That gave me, I think for commercial spots and then I that I could sell for 32nd spots and then whatever product integration, product placement you want to do during the show, and you can have a this show sponsored by billboards and things like that. But I went out and said, yes, I want that deal. And that cost me $143,000 just to do that up front without selling anything, without selling anything. And then it’s up to me to go out and make that 143,000 back. Plus, then you’re just at the break even point. Now you’ve got to now you’ve got to pay for the production. Now you got to make a living, got to put food on the table. That is the pressure that the time by model brings. And it’s a it’s a lot to bear.

Joke: That’s a lot.

Biagio: Yeah it really is. And so how did you stay sane.

Brian Speciale: Stay sane. Yeah I could always lose myself in the work. I could always lose myself in the production and in doing and doing good work. And that’s again speaks to the creative side. You know, as producers, that’s what we love no matter what the subject. It’s how am I going to tell this story and make this show great and make this show something people want to watch. So I could always lose myself and that side of it. And frankly, I probably spent too much time losing myself in that side of it when I should have been out there really pushing and making phone calls and banging on doors. But man, there’s only so much. There’s only so much you can do. Not everyone is a is a natural, natural born salesman. And that’s crazy because we went on Shark Tank and I’ll never forget what Barbara said when we made the deal with her. And at the very end she said, she said, you guys are phenomenal salespeople. I was like, Me? I wish you could have seen me when I was trying to sell time by television.

Biagio: Oh my gosh. I mean, it’s just it’s just so amazing. And, you know, I just want to take a second to talk about Brian again because like we said, we met him through the podcast, didn’t know him, sent us a sizzle. That just blew my mind. Was so, so, so good. And in a lot of ways, Brian is one of the main kind of people we started this podcast for, right? He’s somebody who loves putting together motion pictures. He loves shooting, he loves editing, he understands gear he’s hands on. And in the unscripted television world, especially the time by unscripted television world, I’m assuming, like, you have got to be able to do a lot of the jobs yourself.

Brian Speciale: Absolutely. Like I said, I was, I was doing. There were there were times, there were seasons that I would do everything writing, producing, editing and shooting the show and voicing the show. And I mean everything. And you’ve got the freedom to do that, and that does help keep your costs down. That’s important to do as much as you possibly can. So you don’t have to hire all these people. My God, I don’t know how I ever would have survived if I had to hire, you know, a ten person crew. That would have it wouldn’t have worked. I would have been out of the game a long time ago. But all this, all this was kind of a means to an end for me. And I don’t know what that end is yet, but it was to break into, you know, what you guys do was to break into the to the big leagues and the and the the mainstream. And, you know, that was always my goal. And even before I met you guys, I got close several times with, with projects. But I and I learned a lot along the way. And the main thing that I learned that I was very naive about that. I think a lot of people are naive about, and probably the people listening to this podcast are naive about that is thinking that you’re going to be able to do this by yourself, that you’re going to be able to break into the mainstream by yourself, that you’re going to be able to, as an unknown call up History Channel and say, I’ve got this great show, and they’re going to say, hey, this is that’s great. It is an awesome idea. Go produce it for us. Talk about that’s not how it’s going to work. Right. You have got to work with an established company. I tried it the other way. I tried to break in by myself. And while we did get close, it always at the end. It was like, hey, the network is going to partner you up with a production company that they trust that they have worked with. So cut, cut that, that that thinking out that you think that you’re going to be able to do it yourself and partner up with a production company early and then maybe, you know, you get yourself some EP credits and build your resume and you get shows made, then you can go out by yourself and do do whatever you want, kind of like Joe and Biagio did, but you have got to partner up. And that is the that’s a lesson I learned too late, and I wish I wouldn’t have been so cocky and arrogant and thought, hey, I can do this all myself. You can do it yourself. Who’s to say you can’t? But the network isn’t going to trust you to do it yourself. You’re going to have to partner with an established company. If I could do it all over again, that’s what I would have done from the beginning. So I hope people can learn from the mistake I made.

Joke: That’s awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah. You know, look, we were we were right there with you, man. I remember taking a class trying to meet a network executive and who was teaching in class, and he pretty much told me the exact same thing. Like, you can’t do this on your own. I’m going to make you partner with someone. And, you know, we were like, what? He doesn’t know how good we are, right?

Brian Speciale: Right. You got to play the game, guys. Just like in life, you got to just play.

Biagio: The.

Joke: Game and then quickly you’re like, oh yeah, okay. All right. Let’s just partner up with some production companies and get our feet wet and learn the things. And and you know, look, we were able to make pilots just by ourselves and do that. But then you realize it when you when you want to play in the big league and you’re dealing with the networks, there are so many more things to think about and so many lawyers and insurance and other things that come into play that like you can’t learn on your own, so you have to team up with someone to even learn those lessons so that you’re prepared to handle them on your own.

Brian Speciale: There are. So yeah, I mean, there are so many ins and outs. It’s not just producing the show, whether it’s a time by or whether it’s a network production real quick. We just got done filming for a week with HTV for a show that’s going to be coming out, and we had to kind of wrap up thing we were. So we were picking a house. It was on those house hunting kind of shows, and we had the celebration yesterday at the house we chose and we had a pool party. Well, the network and all their lawyers and, and, and all their fears decided that for our pool party at our backyard pool, they had to hire a lifeguard and bring a lifeguard in. I mean, seriously, we’re in Arizona. That’s just a small example of all the interference. I mean, if lawyers had their way, I’m convinced there wouldn’t be any television shows.

Joke: As soon as you said pool party, I was like, oh, no.

Brian Speciale: Oh.

Unidentified Voice: It’s like.

Brian Speciale: The liability. Oh my gosh. So but that’s just another one of those hoops that you have to you have to jump through. And you’re right. Joke. I mean, there are so many things that you don’t think about. It’s not as simple as just finding finding characters and making them making a show. There’s so much behind it. So it would be very helpful to find someone that’s an established production company that knows the the ins and outs of everything would make life a lot easier and would it would have advanced my career a lot faster if I would have just known that from the beginning and not been so darn hard headed.

Biagio: Well, I’m so proud of the fact that we were one of the companies you trusted to look at your stuff. Getting your your first submission was just like it was. It was like, okay, this is why we started the podcast. Like, this is why this is this is the this is what we’re hoping for. And, you know, I mean, the fact that you’ve been able to then use producing in a completely different way to get on Shark Tank, win huge, and start this huge multi-million dollar company like it couldn’t have happened to a nicer, more talented guy. I’m just so happy for you. And like, like I still hope we get to make a show together, especially since now you don’t need the money. So.

Brian Speciale: And that means it’s bound to happen now, right?

Biagio: That’s right, that’s right. Yeah. Not now that you’re not that, you know, desperately need the show will probably sell six.

Brian Speciale: Hey, for the joy of working with you guys, it would all be worth it.

Biagio: Oh, that’s so nice. Well, listen, thank you so much for being here again for the second episode in a row. We loved having you. We always love talking to you. I always love getting pitches from you. And I’m my fingers across at the next time we do a podcast episode together, it’ll be because we’ve sold something together.

Brian Speciale: I hope so hey, thank you guys for having me. You guys are. You guys are making a difference out there. And I hope everybody signs on to that portal like I did and submits something. You never know what’s going to happen. But you guys are you guys are changing lives. You probably don’t even realize it just by just by doing this podcast. So from the entire aspiring producer community. Thank you.

Unidentified Voice: Oh.

Biagio: Brian, you are just you’re amazing. Yeah. And what a good salesman. Look, he just sold our podcast listeners better than I can. That’s amazing.

Joke: Thank you so much for coming on a podcast and sharing your insight. I think it’s super helpful and especially all this time by stuff. Well, we have zero experience in. So thank you for sharing that.

Biagio: Yeah amazing stuff Brian.

Brian Speciale: Thank you guys. That was amazing.

Biagio: All right I’m gonna go to target and buy by the comfy so.

Brian Speciale: You don’t have to do that. You know a.

Unidentified Voice: Guy I mean I keep seeing.

Joke: It everywhere.

Unidentified Voice: So yeah.

Joke: Everybody go.

Unidentified Voice: Buy a comfy. Yeah.

Biagio: Everybody go buy a comfy. I’m gonna go get I’m gonna go get one this weekend.

Unidentified Voice: Love it. All right, all right.

Biagio: Brian thank you so much, man.

Brian Speciale: Thanks, guys. Talk soon.

Announcer: All right. Take care. Talk soon. Bye bye. Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.