Don't Trust Andrew Mayne - Make TV for A&E

Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?

Confused Woman: Biagio-WHO???

Announcer: This episode.

Biagio: It’s episode 20 and we’re taking about the making of our new show for A&E, Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne. Fellow executive producer, Mary Jaras and fellow executive producer and star, Andrew Mayne join in for the fun.

Why once again, even in a magic show story trumps everything. How many scenes of tapes to make a season of television and how many of those end up on the cutting room floor?

The challenge of creating your show on the fly based on what’s happening with real people right in front of you. How Stu Maschwitz and the DV Rebel’s Guide heavily influenced the making of our new A&E show. What it’s like to know you’ll be a TV star in less than seven days. An insider perspective on getting validated in television and how the star of our new TV show almost lit my face on fire, twice.

Announcer: Music courtesy Dave Pelman Music, davepelman.com

Biagio: Hey everybody! She’s Joke.

Joke: He’s Biagio

Biagio: We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same hopefully by teaming up with us.

Well, great news because this is episode 20 and we have got some awesome guests today, right Joke?

Joke: Yes we do.

Biagio: Yes we do. Our latest team mates, fellow executive producers, one of whom is the star of our new A&E series that starts this Monday, January 13 at 10:00 p.m. at A&E.

Joke: And this is a big secret show we’ve been talking about all summer

Biagio: Big secret show. Yes. This is it.

We’re here with Mary Jaras and Andrew Mayne.

What’s up guys?

Mary: Hey!

Andrew Mayne: Hey guys!

Biagio: Let me just start off by saying I’ve never been so excited to be sitting across with somebody who’s almost lit my face on fire twice.

Andrew Mayne: Almost. I keep trying.

Mary: He almost burned down the building.

Biagio: He almost burned down the building in one of those times.

I have to release that footage some time because you can hear me kind of freaking out right as the fire just about bounces off my forehead.

Andrew Mayne: I remember watching the flames fly towards you and trying to think, “Do I hold the pose or do I act concerned?”

Biagio: Like any smart executive producer and great piece of talent, he held the pose. Thank you Andrew because that shot’s actually in the opening of our show now. It was worth nearly charring my face for life.

Andrew Mayne: You get to see Biagio’s point of view. Imagine when he watched that shot at the flame’s flying toward him, that you are really there and you feel the heat. And that’s one thing that freaks you out. One this is the flames but just how hot that was.

Biagio: Hot and then also the actual sound of a real life fireball. It actually sounds like it does in the movies. I was like, “Oh my god! Do I still have hair?” But I do. And that’s one of the great things about working with a magician. Let me tell you people. But let’s back this up.

Mary and Andrew, we’ve known you guys for a while.

Mary: Yes.

Andrew Mayne: Few years now.

Joke: When was it when we started?

Mary: 2008.

Joke: Oh wow!

Andrew Mayne: It was 2008 guys.

Joke: That’s amazing.

Biagio: And Mary, you’ve worked on every awesome show people have ever heard of.

Mary: Including your awesome shows.

Biagio: Including our awesome shows.

Joke: Including Caged.

Biagio: Including Caged which was absolutely fantastic

Joke: That was a great time.

Biagio: Oh my god! We had so much fun.

Mary: That’s still one of my favourite shows of all time.

Biagio: Mary was buried in the backroom with Joke and about a thousand index cards each of which represented a potential scene for Caged.

Mary: 602 scenes. Let’s be accurate.

Joke: And we only aired about a 120.

Mary: Exactly.

Joke: That will give you a sense.

Biagio: That was pretty good. And then Andrew aside from being a magician, a bestselling author, the list just goes on and on. You guys have also made TV together before.

Andrew Mayne: That’s how we met. We worked on a pilot a year or two before we met you guys. We worked on a pilot and then decided we wanted to start a production company together and went from there. And that’s how we met you guys. It’s was non-magical related projects.

Mary: The G Force stuff together.

Andrew Mayne: Yes. The G Four series, the G Four Underground documentary series and some other stuff.

Biagio: Awesome documentary series.

Mary: A couple pilots and few other things and been pitching shows for a while now.

Biagio: And then finally, we got to make Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne which is like the coolest thing ever.

Joke: I still remember the morning when we, Biagio and I were at breakfast with our network executive. And we were trying to come up with some show ideas for women. We were playing in the revenge world and then he said, “You know we’re also looking back in to the magic.”

And we’re like, “Okay. Got it. We’re going to do Magic Revenge. I know just the guy. Let me call people.” And we left that. And as soon as we got into the car from valet, we called you Mary and we said, “So Andrew still wants to do magic?” She said, “I’m pretty sure but let me call him.”

Biagio: He’s only one of the most prolific magicians ever having designed magic for well, go ahead Andrew. Give us the list. Brag for half a second. Don’t make me do all the bragging for you.

Andrew Mayne: I’ve been very fortunate to have worked in different capacities for different people. My first TV job actually was a PA on a David Copperfield special.

Biagio: Nice.

Andrew Mayne: That’s kind of where I got kind of some insight into TV and also the magic on television part of it. And then, I worked behind the scenes a little for Pen and Teller, collaborated a little bit with David Blaine, and done some stuff here and there.

Biagio: Oh, just a few magical names you might have heard of.

Andrew Mayne: Harry Houdini. Help him get his start.

Biagio: And then Andrew will just call me and say things like, “Hey I just saw Spider Man with David Copperfield.” And I was like, “He was in it?” And he was like, “No, we went together.” I was like, “Oh! Right. What am I saying?”

You’ve actually come quite a long way from your production assistant days.

Joke: Just say yes.

Andrew Mayne: Yes.

Biagio: Andrew is very modest but he’s an incredible magician, incredible magical mind and that was one of the reasons we’re so excited to do this show. Is because it’s not just a magic show, right?

Joke: No. We kind of started with the format of the revenge stuff and what do we do with it. And Magic just took it to a whole new level.

Together, we all kind of figured it out. Andrew’s brand of magic has a lot of mischief in it. I think the first time you said that word the lights went off in the whole room. Mischief and Revenge go perfectly together. It kind of all came from there.

Andrew Mayne: I think the thing that was exciting and to be able to work with you guys because Mary and I talked a lot about and I know that you guys really take seriously his story. And we all knew that if we wanted to do something, we didn’t want to do something that was derivative and had been done before. We wanted to do something that moved to the next level.

And working with people such as yourselves who have such great backgrounds in story telling was just a critical element. I think that’s why A&E loved the idea of the show. I think that’s why we got as far as it was rather than just being we got a magician who does magic. We have a group of people who want to use magic to tell stories.

Biagio: Now that the promo has finally started airing, we still can’t give away too much about the show. But you’ve seen the promos. You see a guy who’s upset because his wife his addicted to the television. You see, who’s the other one that’s in the promo?

Joke: Tina who’s upset at her husband Audi, because he started riding motorcycles again when he had promised her he wouldn’t when they got married.

Andrew Mayne: Signed a contract promising not to ride a motorcycle.

Mary: He deserves a comeback.

All: Yes.

Biagio: You get the sense from the promos that obviously, it’s more than just magic that there’s always a story every episode. What I love and especially what Andrew that you have been able to come up with is a way to take those stories and then get to the root of sort of people’s problems by thinking magically. And that to me is so cool. It makes the show awesome.

Andrew Mayne: When you’re upset with somebody, you try telling them over and over again why you’re bothered and why it is. And sometimes you need to find that kind of the sound bite or the thing that this is what really gets to me. And this is what we were able to do in the show to just say, “Let’s blow that up really big.” sometimes literally and we make a very, very big point to get across how you feel that emotional way of what you feel.

And that is what’s great about magic because magic allows you do things that aren’t possible in the real world. But here, we were able to do for real for people using illusion technology.

Biagio: And make your point in a very big way.

Andrew Mayne: Absolutely. Get that across.

Mary: And a really visual way, you get to tell the story visually.

Joke: Good thing we’re in television.

Andrew Mayne: Exactly. The radio version of this – not as good.

Biagio: Let’s be honest. We said early on the podcast before we’re even allowed to say what the show was…

Andrew Mayne: And I was dying to find out. I kept listening to him and I’m, “What is this mystery show?”

Joke: We’re like, “Andrew, hold up here. We’ll see you after lunch. We got to go record a podcast.”

Biagio: But it is honestly for me and I can’t speak for you guys, but for me it’s probably the most challenging, most difficult show I’ve ever worked on.

Joke: A lot of productions have difficult stages. Either shows are really difficult to cast or they’re really hard in post, or sometimes the shoot is really difficult. This one’s just been difficult all the way through and not in the bad way. I guess difficult is a wrong word. It’s more challenge.

Andrew Mayne: I’m right here guys.

Biagio: If we just could’ve had more cooperative talent, this show could’ve come off without a hitch.

Joke: There was so much to learn for us in terms of magic and not just magic but television magic, right?

Andrew, you talk about the difference between stage magic and being live, experience something in a room with people as most people experience magic. And then television magic where not only you’re doing it live for someone right there in person but you also have to get to the audience.

Andrew Mayne: There is a technical layer to what you want to do and there’s a story telling layer, and there’s the thing where we said how we pull people into this wanting to have more magic and the idea that it’s not street magic. It’s not a street magic show where I’m just going up to people, finding people in the street and doing this.

I’m trying to interfere in people’s lives, not just in the big effects but in the other effects in trying to figure out do how we go in to there and how do we do that. And that’s how do you shoot this, how do you make pull that off. We never wanted to do a show that was like a hidden camera show where it’s just of bunch of cameras behind one way mirrors or whatever and put people inside in them.

That’s fine. But for us, we wanted to move this to the next level and that meant putting magic into situations where you would never necessarily see it and people didn’t know that it was coming which producing was a hell of a challenge.

Joke: It’s also making your character less of like, “Look. I’m a magician. Didn’t I do something cool? Yeah! Moving on to the next trick.” You’re the star of the show but it was really about seeing leaving them the mischief, right? Leaving them a little worse off but not in the horrendous way. In a fun way where it’s just like, “Oh.” because a lot of times, you ran away from the magic leaving them which is where the humour comes in as well.

Andrew Mayne: I was certainly trying to find that way to have magic happen to people, have it in a way works as the outcome is unexpected for them and really get into those people. They’re not just people you just sort of randomly shuffle through where all you want is their smile, their laugh or their scream. You wanted to get kind of involved in each of those little characters a little bit and make it about their interaction with it and then get out of it.

That was a challenge but it was fun. That made it so much more fun than just doing what’s been done before.

Joke: I think one of the promos that is out there that we all loved so much was when we did the pickle jar, right? You approached someone, you do the magic, make their phone vanish but instead of it like appearing somewhere not important it ends up inside the pickle jar which now she has to destroy the entire pyramid and cap of the pickles.

Andrew Mayne: My favourite part about that is what happens after. Once the phone is in there, then it’s how is she going to deal with this? What’s going to happen? And then do I go back and taunt her a little bit or have fun with her or whatever? And you could see her frustration but she was also having fun because it’s this delightful little dilemma.

Mary: I would say that that’s the beautiful part of doing the show like this. The whole thing about calling her was just something that just came up it just seemed like the natural thing to do on set.

Biagio: Yes, it was your idea Mary. We were in the tent and Mary was like, “Oh my god! You got to call her.” And I’m like, “Absolutely, he’s got to call her.”

Mary: And then he took it to another level. It’s very collaborative which is probably the most enjoyable part of this show is probably.

Biagio: You made a very valid point Mary which is that as producers, we’re back there and like Andrew’s saying earlier, we’re trying to tailor the illusion to a specific person which means he needs to be magical on his feet and we need to be thinking creatively the entire time because we actually don’t know how the illusion is going to go.

Mary: Yes, exactly.

And to go to the earlier point of this of being the most difficult show ever produced, I think that part of it too is that it’s a new format in a way. We all know how to do docu soap, or talk show, competition reality and you know what the problems are going to be. But when you go into something that’s kind of a hybrid, you don’t know what the problems are to look for and so oh my gosh! I won’t say it’s reinventing the wheel, maybe a little tiny training wheel.

Joke: And we’ll also put the blame where it lies which is at Biagio’s feet because he’s the one he created the format and the pilot.

Mary: Yes.

Joke: And then Mary and I looked at each other and said, “Wow! He sure screwed us for series.”

Mary: Yes. Actually, I think those were the exact words.

Andrew Mayne: We went to into it with the idea of we’re going to have fun magic and we’re going to have the big huge revenge story which is sort of a hinge to it and then Biagio looked at this and said, “We can tie all this together.” And not even have it be random but there’s a story to each one of these effects and what leads to here and there which is fantastic that there’s some sort of structure to it.

But them it’s like, “Great. We got to do 12 episodes of that, exactly like that.” And then it’s like you can have the greatest magic trick in the rule book but if it doesn’t fit the story for the episode, then it doesn’t go in there.

Joke: And that’s what made posts somewhat difficult because then we were having to rearrange some of the magic to the episodes that didn’t fit in better and then have to do some research on some of the connecting dialogue, voice over, and stand ups that Andrew did. It was just challenging all the way through but we’re all very proud of the show.

Biagio: And I will say this. For me, the pilot, I’m going to mention a guy that Andrew knows I kind of have a man crush on Stu Maschiwitz, but Stu wrote a book called the DV Rebel’s Guide and it’s like to making action movies and all that kinds of stuff. But it is a book that I’ve always loved because it speaks to the idea that sometimes you want to do things that are much bigger than you actually have the means to do and you just got to do it anyway.

Andrew Mayne: Sometimes.

Joke: That’s our life babe.

Mary: It’s our way of life.

Biagio: Everything in what we do. What I loved so much about pilot, really all pilots especially this one, when you’re trying to figure it out because you know kind of what you want the show to be but it’s not until you get out there playing around that you really discover it.

And what was so great about working with everybody here at this table is that once the bulk of the pilot was shot the “proper way” with our budget, we really need to make a lot of changes. We kind of went out and reshot half the pilot really just the two of us, right?

We got out there running around. Me with the camera. You were creating magic. And oh my god! It was one of the greatest experiences of my life because it was so gorilla and it speaks to one of the things that Stu always hits at in his books which is like, “If you just go out and you just kind of ignore all the naysayers where you can’t, you can’t do that.” You can actually do stuff that’s really different and high quality but you have to be willing to roll with the punches. And you were willing to role with the punches.

Andrew Mayne: I think a thing that helped me and I see that you guys embrace too, is that we have an idea of project in your mind, you think like you know what 90% of the work is going to be and you think the last 10% is going to be the last 10%. And it’s never the last 10%. It’s 50%. The things that you don’t expect, they’re going to take time in that to make things right or work whatever, just expand.

And if you get in to your mind set like, “Oh! We’re almost done. Ready to finish and move on to the next thing,” you’re not going to get great stuff. And I know from writing and other things like that that I have to anticipate the idea there’s going to be a lot more to it.

Biagio: That’s just the way it is.

Joke: And also don’t let that discourage you from getting started because you’re absolutely right. And that’s why most independent films don’t ever get finished because people get started and it’s all fun and games. And then it’s like, “Shouldn’t this be over right now?” and it’s like, “Man. You’re not even halfway.” And that’s why the people who succeeded are people who finish.

Biagio: Given the fact that we’re coming up on 20 minutes and they just started sanding the wall next door, I think we’re going to bring an end to this episode. However, we’re going to be talking a lot more in upcoming episodes with Andrew and Mary about the making of the show, about some really great producing things that you’ll be able to take hopefully some tips that you can use on your own projects. But for today, I just want to thank Mary and Andrew for being here. You guys are awesome.

Joke: I have one last question for Andrew.

Biagio: Okay. Throw it out.

Joke: Because this time next week your entire life might be different.

Biagio: That’s right.

Andrew Mayne: You guys, this is basic cable.

Way back I was sent to an audition for some show and I’m talking to a guy there who had done 100 episode of one of his television shows you’d see. One of these is kind of paranormal shows. And he did some other showI vaguely recognized from that.

And I’m asking about this. It’s a hundred episodes of TV shows, star of the show. I said, “Man do you get recognize much?” He says, “Once.” He says, “I got recognized once.” I’m like, “Really?” and he said, “Yup.” That was it.

Biagio: I’m willing to venture a guess that you will be recognized more than once.

Joke: Yes.

Andrew Mayne: We’ll see.

Joke: Just so you know, remember us little people when it happens.

Andrew Mayne: My office is right over there. I see you every day.

Mary: I could cancel your parking card.

Biagio: By little she just meant short because I think all of us are about three heads smaller than you.

Joke: Yes.

Andrew Mayne: It’s the list.

Biagio: It’s the list.

Joke: That’s the secret to start it all.

Biagio: All right everybody. Well, you got to tune in this Monday, January 13th 10:00 p.m. on A&E.

Joke: Two episodes. One at 10:00 and one at 10:30

Biagio: Two episodes back to back, one at 10:00 and one at 10:30. Back to back episodes launching this brand new series. You guys are going to love it.

Andrew is awesome. Mary came in with so many great ideas. These guys knew each other so well. We’re so lucky to be working together with them and so happy to make this.

Joke: It’s also great for both women and men. Don’t think of it as just a magic show that the guys will like. There’s so much story and fun and humour that I think that the women will relate too as well. We’ve had good luck.

This has been tested. It’s shown to audiences. It tested well across the board. The network’s super excited. They’ve been extremely helpful and collaborative and they’ve been great. They’ve put some money behind promoting it. Everybody is really super-duper excited about this show.

Mary: And for the ladies out there, Andrew’s hot. You can’t see it right now but there you go. I embarrassed him.

Andrew Mayne: I’m blushing.

You know what would be super awesome? Everybody listen to this. When the show’s on, be active on Twitter. And if you like what you see, head up A&E they’re @ATV and tell them that you liked the show. Tell them you like what Joke and Biagio did. Being active on Twitter is a great way to tell people if you’re enthusiastic about something. I think it’s a fun way to interact.

I’ll be live tweeting and I think they’ll be live tweeting later in the show. They’re going to be active on there so be sure to follow that.

Joke: And there’s also the Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne Facebook page. Which is also run by A&E. The more active you are there, the better it looks for the network.

Andrew Mayne: Absolutely. It means a lot to us every time we see somebody who likes what you do, when you like what they do or whatever supports that get there that’s invisible. Every time I get a little @reply on Twitter where somebody says, “Just saw the promo. I’m excited,” or something like that, it makes me feel so good.

Joke: Because that’s the one bad thing about us working in television, right? In theatre, you have immediate gratification. The best part about when we made our movie was going out to the film festival and doing the Q&A’s with the audience right after. And in television we don’t get that.

If you guys are active on social media like Andrew said, that’s our way of getting that response

Andrew Mayne: Can I give a really quick insight the way the television works and kind of a messed up way that is. Your show airs. Maybe you get some calls from friends or whatever like that who you know to call you, tell you that they’ve watched it. And then you wait the next day to go to see the ratings. That’s when you wait to get your validation on how you film. And that’s a horrible way to feel validated about something.

What you want to know is that the reason that you got into this is you want to connect with people and if you hear people say, “We like this,” and that’s what’s wonderful now that you have Twitter and Facebook that you can say, “Hey! I like this or whatever.” It means more in the moment than where it is.

Joke: Only in the moment.

Biagio: All right. Well, thank you guys so much for being here.

Again, remember to check out Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne, A&E, this Monday 10:00 p.m. back to back episodes, one at 10:00 p.m. and one at 10:30. We’ll be back in a few more weeks or next month some time with some more about Don’t Trust Andrew Mayne on this very podcast.

Thank you Mary and Andrew for being here.

Mary: Thank you.

Andrew Mayne: Thank you.

Biagio: All right.

Joke: See you guys soon.

Biagio: See you soon. Bye-bye everybody.

Announcer: Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.

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