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Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?
Unidentified Voice: Biagio.
Biagio: Who did this episode? It’s episode 115, and we have some helpful advice for those who are just starting out. The top three worst kinds of shows for new producers to pitch. Unless we tell you exactly why new producers shouldn’t pitch these kind of shows unless. Plus, where you should spend your time instead. And the truth about our humble beginnings. We were all young and full of fire. Thought we knew everything. We didn’t, you know. Music courtesy Dave Pelman. Music. Dave. Com. Hey, everybody. She’s Jo Keith. Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.
Joke: Hopefully by teaming up with us.
Biagio: All right. Well, hey, first of all, we want to say thank you to so many of you who watched and reached out to us about Deadly Recall. Really appreciate that you watched. And it was a special show to make.
Joke: It really was. Thank you guys so much. And there’s a lot of love out there for Pat. And we share that love. So fingers crossed we get to do a lot more episodes.
Biagio: Yeah. Pat of course is Pat and he’s a detective with a photographic memory.
Joke: But they all know this because he was on their podcast last month.
Biagio: What if they’re new listeners? Anyways, you know this because he was on the podcast last month. Yeah. I don’t need to go into details. Okay. So listen, first of all, you guys know we’re so appreciative when anybody takes the time to pitch to us. I mean, it’s why we set up this site. It’s why we set up the portal. A hand in hand with that, though, is that there’s sort of like a lot of basics that people seem to be missing right now, but it might also.
Joke: Be because they’re in the first ten episodes.
Biagio: Could be because they’re in the first ten episodes, or because they’re joined now and we’ve got five years of episodes. So we thought, you know what, if we could under an umbrella, it just kind of put like the main mistakes that we see and use that as a way into some of the points that we’ve talked about in the past. So today we’re talking about the three were shows new producers can pitch on less and less.
Joke: So this is this is really kind of like look, hopefully eventually you get to a point in your career where you can pitch anything and everything. But even for us at this point, there are certain shows that, you know, people will buy from us, and then there might be shows that it’s like a maybe not, and only because maybe we don’t have a ton of experience in it or, you know, look, Mark Burnett can walk into any network and kind of sell those big competition shows without anyone batting an eye. Although those are probably harder to sell today than they were 20 years ago, but much. But I think it’s important that when you’re a new producer and you know, you’ll be teaming up with a production company, and we know the goal would be for you guys to stay involved as much as possible with these shows, it really comes back down to how to make yourself valuable. And what you’ll see is in the shows that we’re going to talk you through the kind of the three worst shows new producers should can pitch. It’s it’s that that becomes harder, right? You’re less valuable to these. So that’s kind of why we’re saying, hey, maybe don’t start off pitching with these three types of shows.
Biagio: Yeah. And listen, we’ve we’re doing this also because we’ve received a lot of these kind of pitches recently. If you were one of the persons submitting, please don’t take this podcast the wrong way. We just want to share information to help you save time and speed your career up. So you might be like, oh, I just pitched that show and that’s okay. You’ll know why it would pass or we’ll be passing eventually.
Joke: And we also know it takes you. It takes everyone a lot of time, right, to kind of develop a show and do the right up and submit it. So this is really just like, hey, save yourself some extra obstacles that you don’t want to have to deal with.
Biagio: And by the way, this is par for the course. We get pitched plenty of shows by people that the show is way off, and then they go away and they listen to the podcast and they come back and they pitch something we’re actually interested in and wanted to team up on, you know, say they when we were starting out, when we walked into a network, the pitch, we were all young and full of fire. Thought we knew everything. We didn’t. You know, we still acted that way, but we did it, you know, so, so, so we made the same mistakes when we were starting out. So if we can stop you from doing that. Hey. Great. All right, so without any further ado, let’s get into the first worst kind of show. New producers can pitch competition shows.
Joke: Oh, the big competition shows. You know, you’ve seen every kind of competition show on the planet at this point. So the idea of coming in and saying, we’re going to find the best, I don’t know, bartender, or we’re going to find the best basket weaving person, as Biagio likes to say, or whatever. The thing is it it’s hard as a first time producer to come into that, you know, because there’s usually like, well, what’s the reward? And how do you get the reward? And is there enough of an audience there? And, you know, if we’re going to do, we’re going to find a best singer. There’s about 100 of those out there. We’re going to find a best chef. There’s about 100 of those out there, you know. So there’s a lot of things going against you to begin with. Now this is called the three where shows new producers can pitch unless. So I would say the caveat to this one being if you somehow were like the air to Mattel or you were the president of a sports franchise, or the son or the daughter of the president of a sports franchise, and you can say, look, I’ve been talking to the board over here and we all would love to do a show where we will give away X, you know, a spot on the team, a, you know, a toy that will make and will produce and we’ll put in stores everywhere or whatever. Like if you’re that well connected, then yes, you should by all means pitch that show. But if you’re starting out and you don’t have a connection to the world of the competition, show that you’re that you’re pitching. It’s a huge obstacle. So again, sure, you can try. But in us giving advice to new producers, it’s like maybe your time is spent better elsewhere.
Biagio: Elsewhere. Yeah. And I mean, if you think about it, it just it just makes sense. It’s hard because probably a lot of people listening to this have no connections to Hollywood or to big money people, and that’s understandable. Neither did we when we were starting out. But when it comes to competition reality, you have to walk in with more than just the idea. I mean, that’s really the case with all kinds of shows, but especially in competition. Look, if you’re pitching a music show, you better have somebody like a Taylor Swift already on board. So, you know, I think the most important thing to ask yourself is, do I have access to someone or something very special that makes this competition show more than in a words on paper idea?
Joke: Yeah, because I think it’s like if you look at some of the bigger shows that have been out there, I think the Rock Titan games and stuff like that, it’s, you know, people want to compete with American Ninja Warrior and it’s like, you know, you need the rock. Like, how are you going to be the cell of American Ninja Warrior to an audience? Like, the only way to do that is with like, a bigger name and which maybe is the Rock. But you know what? It didn’t do as well as American Ninja Warrior. I don’t think so. It’s one of those things where, you know, it’s not just about you and you starting out. It’s just that’s what what the marketplace is looking like. And the fact that you are new coming in, it just makes it harder.
Biagio: So yeah, so not the best place to spend your time. Okay. Moving on to worst show. New producers can pitch number two celebrity centered shows.
Joke: What we mean by celebrity centered shows is a lot of times people bring in shows where it’s like so-and-so, for example, Taylor Swift will be the judge in this new music show. Or we see, you know, Chip and Joanna Gaines judging the next flippers. I don’t know, I’m just making things up. If that’s the case, you have to have those people attached, like you and Chip and Joanna have to be best buds, and they’ve already promised you. Yeah, it doesn’t matter. We’ll do the show with you. If you say you your besties with the Kardashians, you know, you know, you’ve got Kris Jenner on board, you’ve talked to her and she is guaranteed you that no matter who comes on board or whatnot, she’s going to make sure that her daughter, or whichever one or her son is going to do that show with you, you know, I mean, like, it’s very easy to be like, oh, I think we could just go get Madonna for something. And by the way, we made that same mistake. We pitched a show that had like big time filmmakers involved. And literally the agent was like, you can never cast this. So, contrary to popular belief, a lot of these celebs are not just dying to be on television, and the level of celeb that might be are not the people that will help you sell the show.
Biagio: Right? And, you know, I think it really just again, comes down to knowing like, don’t pitch what you don’t have because we get a lot of those. But the fact of the matter is, you know, we or networks or other production companies, you know, we don’t have relationships with every single celeb out there. And a lot of those slobs would never agree to do a show with a specific network. On the other hand, they might agree to do a show with their best friend. So if you happen to be in one of those circles again, long shot. Which is why we say maybe don’t waste your time here, but if you happen to be in one of those circles where you could pitch a celebrity centered show with them attached saying, I will do the show, by all means pitch it. Otherwise forget about it for now.
Joke: And that brings us to the third or show. New producers can pitch unless and this is a tricky one because, you know, not only do we get a lot of times, but this one, I also understand why new producers might pitch it. There’s a lot of these business makeover shows out there, and so you’re like, oh, I know so-and-so is doing is starting something up. Or, you know, maybe we could do something with them. So so the third one of these shows, we’re pretty much calling business startup shows. And the thing that we see there that’s really the negative against it is the startup part. Networks have gotten very savvy that they are no longer really going to foot the bill and starting up a business. Starting up a business is very hard. There’s a lot of risks involved, and there’s not always a decent shot that that business is going to make it, especially if we’re talking about, you know, the food industry or or even fashion and style. And so it’s one of those things where, you know, networks want to do growing businesses, but there needs to be some kind of track record already in place. And so if the idea is like, hey, my friends and I are starting a bakery, or my friends and I are going to launch a publishing company or, I don’t know, I’m just making things up again, that’s going to be a very, very, very hard sell. So unless.
Biagio: Yeah, unless let’s say you’re a startup, but someone just gave you millions and millions of dollars, you know, or you’re a startup and your team with a celebrity or you’re a startup and, and the reason you’re starting up is because you were already the best in the world at something else. There needs to be a reason for jumping in other than we’re starting this new company. And I mean, let’s let’s be honest, I get it. A lot of new companies would like to pitch themselves as a reality show, because you’re getting a 22 or 44 minute free commercial every week for your business. I mean, Jonathan Anton became a billionaire with a B after he was on television. So we understand why people want to pitch those shows. But networks are only going to be interested in buying if there’s something extremely special about the company. And usually if you’re a startup, there’s nothing special yet other than an idea. And the idea hasn’t been proven. So a network’s not going to take a chance on it.
Joke: Also, the problems that come that, you know, tagged along with starting up are, you know, a lot of times you’re waiting around for certain regulations. You’re finding things like it’s not as exciting as there’s a business that’s running, there’s a staff that’s exciting, that’s dynamic. There are already problems that we know. There are, you know, avenues of success that we can follow. You know, there’s credibility behind the business. So the idea of a show that has to do with the business is still very much, you know, a good bet. Like if you know, a great local business, you should absolutely pursue it. We’re specifically just talking about this, this idea that someone is pretty much going to start the business for the TV show. That’s going to be a hard sell.
Biagio: Yeah. We in every network get a lot of pitches where it’s like me and my friends are really wild and crazy, and we’re starting a company that is just that. Nobody in the marketplace wants it right now. Now, I think I think the jokes. I think you have a bonus tip, right?
Joke: I have a bonus tip. So this is this is kind of a weird one, which is why I’m just kind of making a bonus tip, but but it’s one where, you know, very, very early on in the podcast, you know, the advice I gave was like, watch TV, right? So if you want to be in the TV business, understand the marketplace, see what’s out there, what’s working, go to TV by the numbers, kind of see what’s doing well, see what show is in its multiple seasons and what shows kind of die after the first season. But the idea is, as a new producer, just to really do your research, because there’s nothing worse than to pitching a show that’s already on television. Again, not saying that there can’t be derivative shows on television. It’s just very hard as a first time producer to walk into a room and try and sell a derivative show. So I think making yourself valuable, bringing something new in terms of piece of talent, in terms of access, in terms of, you know, kind of an entire concept that what that’s what makes you valuable to, to start off with, you know, a show that’s clearly derivative is going to be a very hard, you know, first time through the door.
Biagio: And while most producers aren’t this extreme, this is a true story. We were pitched The Apprentice, but better.
Joke: And that sounds like a joke. And I thought it was a joke. This was actually an in-person, kind of like pitch session with lots of people and other people in the room thought it was a joke, but so we said, okay, if it’s not a joke, why don’t you pitch the show? And he proceeded to pitch us The Apprentice exactly as is. And when I asked, well, what’s different about this show versus the one that’s on the air, he said, well, we’re going to do it better. So I do have to commend the balls it takes to I don’t know if I could do that. I mean, at that point it was like a top rated show. And Burnett, you know, it was kind of a reality God at that point. So that took a lot. But, you know, it’s not even that extreme. It really is sometimes just googling it. And by the way, we do the same thing, you know. Well, Biagio and I will be brainstorming an idea and we’re like, oh, this could be a cool show. We’re like, well, let’s just make sure it’s not already out there. And sometimes you’re like, oh, yeah, I mean, it’s a huge cable landscape. There are lots of hours of television that need to be filled. And so if it’s been on the air in the last couple of years, it’s probably not the right one to start with.
Biagio: Yeah. Listen, and with all that said, you know, because we don’t want to just make this, you know, all all negative. So I don’t think these are negatives because they’re going to save you a lot of time and heartache and headaches. But you know, what kind of shows should new producers pitch. And I think we can pretty much sum it up by saying new producers should pitch something they have unique access to that would work for someplace on television right now. That’s kind of what what do you think of that definition, honey, as I can say so much.
Joke: Yeah, it’s concise and it’s open enough for it. Right. But it really just comes down to access. You know, you have a person, a talent, a place, world, you know, even a piece of IP. You know, if you own a book or, you know, you have a certain, I don’t know, anything that really sets it apart, that brings value to you, that you can bring to the project and hopefully, you know, make it all the way to air that way. But but that’s the something that will set you apart from the other people pitching. Coming through the door is if you have that something that’ll go a long way.
Biagio: Like we always say, ideas just aren’t enough. You have to come in with this is a show we’re going to make, and this is what I have access to. And if you’re a new producer and you do that, for instance, like Abra, who was on our podcast a while back, you know, she came in with unique access to a world with tape and bringing a lot of ability to actually work on the show. Well, she was instantly valuable, much better than The Apprentice, but better.
Joke: So now, you know, obviously The Apprentice, that man is now a president. But, you know, this was a long time ago, the Apprentice. But better pitch was, was what, ten, 12 years ago? More than that.
Biagio: Yeah. I can’t imagine anybody would pitch that today. But yeah. So so listen. That’s it. I hope these tips were useful. I hope that you take it in a positive way, knowing that these shows are tough for new producers to sell. So spend your your time gaining access to something unique that can work on TV. Give yourself a much better shot of selling your shows, whether you’re pitching to us or anybody else. If you would like to pitch to us, it’s it is completely doable. It’s not super easy because there are a few hoops you need to jump through, but anybody who can surf the web will be able to submit to us. Basically, just head over to Producing Unscripted. Com sign up for the newsletter and follow the directions that will show you how you can sign up for our portal. And our portal is where people pitch us shows. So again, you can learn more about that all over this podcast and past episodes. But if you’re new and you’re wondering how to pitch to us, that’s how. That’s the only way we accept pitches. You don’t send them to our offices, don’t email them directly to us. We can’t look at them for our lawyers. But if you put through the portal, we can and we’ve teamed up with quite a few filmmakers now who have pitched to us through the portal. So that could be your next.
Joke: Anyway, thank you guys so much for listening to another episode. We’re really trying to do the one monthly and then, you know, all of a sudden we’re like, tomorrow is the end of the month. So hopefully we’ll get you guys a little sooner in May.
Biagio: Great. All right. Take care everybody. Thanks for listening by.
Joke: Talk soon.
Biagio: Producing unscripted with.
Unidentified Voice: Joe can be Geo.
