Wanna' read along? Here’s a machine-generated transcript you can use. Yes...expect a few mistakes, especially with funky industry terms, interesting names and tagging whoever's talking. If something sounds weird, trust your ears. But...sometimes that really is what we said!
Announcer: Welcome to Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
Angry Man: Is this some kind of joke?
Unidentified Voice: Biagio.
Biagio: Who did this episode? It’s episode 88, and we’re sharing three ways aspiring TV producers can stand out in 2017. One simple tip that changes everything. Trust us, a lot of people just don’t do this. The importance of pitching packages instead of concepts, especially when you’re just starting out. The pros and cons of learning new skills and how to find the right balance. So you’re not just spinning your wheels. And the one thing I hope joke never learns how to do that would just totally destroy my delicate ego. The day she sat down and just like, ran circles around me. Music courtesy Dave Pelman. Music Dave Pelman.com. Hey, everybody. She’s joke. He’s Biagio. We’re married. We make unscripted film and television and want to help you do the same.
Joke: Hopefully by teaming up with us.
Biagio: All right. Well, happy 2017, everybody. You may have noticed that we got started a little late this year. Yeah.
Joke: Well, you know.
Biagio: Came out of the holidays. We rolled right back in the work. As you know, our new series, Three Days to Live, is going to be airing later this year. So we had some little odds and ends to finish up with that. And we dove right into a brand new top secret TV series we can’t wait to tell you about. We can’t talk about it. I wish we could. We can’t, but we’re working on it every day.
Joke: Yeah, no, we were told we can’t talk about it.
Biagio: We signed a very, very punishing NDA that says, nope, you can’t say anything about it until we do. We being the network that we’re very excited to be working with on it. So it’s been a busy year, but we are getting back in the podcast swing of things. As always, our goal is to help you navigate the waters of unscripted film and television. And, you know, if I if you if you like what we have to say and you think you might like to team up with us on a project, we provide a way for you to to pitch your concepts to us, even if you never pitch us anything. We hope these tips and advice will be useful for you. So what’s the podcast about, honey?
Joke: Well, I’m looking outside in. The sun is shining and so we are very positive and full of full of of energy for 2017. And so we thought, how about three ways aspiring TV producers can stand out in 2017?
Biagio: Heck yeah. And even though this is aimed at aspiring TV producers, think these tips will help you if you’re an aspiring filmmaker. If you want to work in Hollywood at all in general, I think these tips will be good now.
Joke: Yeah, and I mean, it’s obviously hit more at when you’re starting, but honestly, these are good reminders for all of us. So I think yeah I’m excited about this.
Biagio: Yeah. And I will say, listen, here’s how we put this list together because I hate coming from a negative place. But the fact.
Joke: You said I hate to, which is negative.
Unidentified Voice: I hate being negative.
Biagio: I love coming from a positive place. Look at that. See, I caught myself. So, so. But obviously, when you’re when you’re learning, I think you learn from people’s positive examples and you learn from their mistakes. And so I’m trying to wrap up these tips, you know, with some real world stories of things that have happened recently or in general with producers who both succeeded and achieved less than success on their pitches. All in the spirit of hoping that we all improve together.
Joke: Yes, exactly.
Biagio: All right. Sounds good. So let’s just jump right in, okay. Number one way you can stand out in 2017, prove you know your stuff. Now, this just sounds obvious joke, but but it’s not.
Joke: It sounds so obvious, but apparently it isn’t. So I think, you know, different levels. That means different things. But the very basic thing that we all and doesn’t matter where we are in, in our careers that we have to understand is proving, you know, your stuff really, for me, basically comes down to you’ve really thought this through, like you thought through the idea. You you’ve compared it to the marketplace. You kind of know where it’s going to fit. You know how it’s going to move ahead. You, for lack of a better. You know, I mean, I don’t mean to say go listen to all of our podcasts, but you’ve done your research, you know, you know, the story engine, you know, the characters. And the big thing that we come across is someone starting out my say, hey, what about a show about this person? And we’ll be like, great, what do they have going on in their life? Oh, I don’t know yet. Okay, well, by calling me, you know, like, it’s one of those things where you have to have the answers to the questions you’re going to get back and you don’t have to make it up. And if there’s truly an answer that stumps you, which has happened to all of us, it’s fine to say, actually, let me find out and I’ll get back to you. But the basic stuff you got to have covered, you know?
Biagio: Yeah, I mean, listen, you should be passionate enough about any project you’re pitching that you’ve actually thought about it beyond the one liner elevator pitch, you know, and unfortunately, I think what’s happened is that Hollywood, especially for aspiring anything, filmmakers, writers, newbies, in a lot of ways, it’s become an elevator pitch culture where people have these one line ideas, these one line concepts, and they don’t think about them beyond that. And you really need to if you want to get a project off the ground.
Joke: And by the way, then also goes for some of the soft pitches. I feel like people think a soft pitch just means like, oh, I just woke up with this idea, let me run. And by everybody, you know, a soft pitch means you don’t necessarily have, you know, a tape yet or you don’t necessarily have casting yet, but you have to have thought about the idea. You have to have figured out how it’s going to work. Is it half hour is an hour. Where does it fit? You know what what what do you envision? Because we need to be able to see what you see in your head. And if you don’t have that yet, then that doesn’t really help us, right? So, for example, a writer is not going to walk into a pitch meeting and not have thought through the story. He’ll have the beginning or she’ll have the beginning, middle and end, you know, the basic characters, etc. you know, a director is going to be pitching, you know, visuals and color schemes and inspiration stills and all these things. As a producer, you have to, you know, a producer is the shepherd of the entire project. So you have to have elements of all of that. At least, you know, again, it doesn’t mean that that’s what’s going to end up on the screen, but you have to have put some thought into it. So anyway, it’s just, you know, we ask you questions about your idea, we ask you questions about the world you’re pitching or a piece of talent you’re pitching. You have to have answers. You know, you have to give me the sense that you have thought about it more than I have at this point.
Biagio: And again, it sounds obvious, but it’s not. And I’ll do a quick AB when the guys who pitched us what became MTV’s caged when they came in, even though they didn’t have the perfect tape yet, what they understood was the world. They said, there’s this small town, you know, in Louisiana where MMA fighting has sort of risen to the level of where most towns, you know, cheer on their high school football team. Like MMA has sort of replaced this as the sport the whole town comes out for. These entire kids are basing their lives on trying to make it, you know, to the UFC. And there’s all these incredible stories. And then they told us some stories of the real people competing in the sport. They understood what they were pitching. Just the other day, we had somebody who promised to pitch us a celebrity show, and not only did the celebrity not make it to the meeting, they actually didn’t even have any ideas or seemed to care about how to shape the show around that celebrity. So two very different ways to pitch a show. And that might sound crazy to you, but we see it all the time both ways, so just really know your stuff. Also, I know we just mentioned a couple terms that might be unfamiliar to some of you. Soft pitch story engine. I will link to both of those and some other important terminology podcasts we’ve done in the show notes for this episode, which you’ll be able to find over at Producing Unscripted eight because it’s episode 88. All right, so moving on to tip number two.
Joke: Pitch packages not concepts. And again, it’s it’s the next evolution of if you’re really thinking through everything that you’re doing it’s pitching packages not concepts. It really comes into play as to what is making this this project valuable. Right. It’s not just an idea. It’s not just like a one liner. It’s not like, can we? What about a cooking show set in the white House? Or, you know, any of those kind of survivor on Antarctica? These are all examples we’ve given before, but you get the idea. Like those are just kind of concepts. So the idea of pitching packages, it’s like do you have a piece of intellectual property. Do you have a piece of talent that we may or may not attach to it? Do you have access? Do you have a special skill that will make the execution of this show set apart from any shows like it that have been produced? You know, thinking about, you know, if you’re like, well, my company has developed this amazing 360 rig that we can take out on the street, and it’s never before been done. And so imagine, like, I don’t know, I’m just making stuff up now. But so the idea is you have to pitch a package. You have to pitch a show is not just a one line on a piece of paper or even a one sheet. You kind of have to figure out, you know, what is the thing that will make it valuable?
Biagio: Yeah. And this is what we always tell new producers starting out. You’re way better off pitching a documentary series or a follow doc based around some really interesting people, or a really interesting business you have access to because you automatically have a package, then you’re coming not just with an idea about, hey, let’s do a show, you know, set with young MMA wrestler, you know, MMA fighters. You’re saying, hey, I have this entire town and an entire league on board ready to do this show. It’s a huge difference. It makes all the difference in the world because now it’s like, wow, look at this. I’ve put the time in. I’ve found the people or the access that’s ready to go. Like Joe said, there’s a lot of ways to build packages. Maybe you attach a celebrity to a show, even if it’s in name only. As executive producer, maybe you maybe you attach, you know, an author of a book. You get the rights to a book that you can build a show around, which we actually ended up doing on our very first TV show we ever did, Foody Call, which, which was based on a book that wasn’t even in bookstores. And this was even before Amazon.com. I think this is going way back. It was a self-published book. Yeah. Anyways, find a way to make it bigger than just an idea, right?
Joke: And just a caveat that does not include sponsorship. That does not necessarily include like, hey, I have this this person who would give product placement or would you buy a commercial for this show? Like, again, that’s the people you sell TV shows to are very different than the people who are dealing with the advertisers. And so, you know, unless it is a web series that will be funded by brands, this this is very different.
Biagio: Yeah, it’s it’s a very different world right now even than it was ten years ago. When it comes to pitching a show, a lot of people make the mistake of coming in and they’re so excited about, oh, all the sponsorships or all, you know, all the integrations we’ll be able to do or the 360 of the show, like, these are all the business opportunities to spill out of it. Forget about that. If you’re if you’re interested in that’s a completely different business model. It’s not the way to sell TV shows to networks to get them to fund your shows. What you need to be worried about is why it’s a great show. Forget all that other stuff. It’s not helpful right now. There are such things in the world as time buys and you know it’s a completely different business. It’s a hard way to go and it’s not the way you make the types of shows most people think of when they think of unscripted. It’s not the way you get a show on Netflix or, you know, on A&E or MTV. It’s just it’s not the model. So don’t worry about sponsorship and integrations. Just worry about packaging up the best show you can. All right. Now that brings us to tip number three for 2017.
Joke: Keep learning. And more importantly, let that inspire your work. And nobody and I mean nobody does this better than Biagio.
Biagio: Well, okay, listen, I will point out my strength and my weakness. And I think this is an important lesson to everybody. The fact of the matter is, there’s a fine line between learning that’s actually going to help you in your career and learning that is just spinning your wheels. Because believe me, I can get lost in the weeds, especially when it comes to 3D and studying things like smart image based lighting and, you know, learning V-Ray and all and different types of renderers and comparing V-Ray to Octane and Cinema 4D, Tamiya and trying to decide what’s, you know, what’s the better 3D program. Guess what? None of that actually helps me when we’re making Three Days to Live. She made me do it. What does help me though, is being able to kick out a photo. Real shot. You know quickly that that works within the show and makes the show better. So you got to kind of find that line. But I think, though, where a lot of people make the mistake is they become lifelong learners. And there’s nothing wrong with that except that they keep learning and they never actually put that learning into practice. And I’ve met people like this, like they can tell you everything there is to know about a particular subject, or they study graphics or they study writing. You know, they’ve read every book on, you know, narrative structure. They can find, you know, at every bookstore and library out there, but they’ve never actually written a screenplay or, you know, or they’ve read every single book there is in cinematography. But pick up a camera once a week. You have to learn because you have to continue to improve and raise your game, but then you need to take what you learn and put it in the practice right away. And honestly, that’s something that I’ve been working really hard on for the past several years is not, you know, believe me, if I if I spend, you know, five hours studying a tutorial on smart image based lighting, you better believe the next show we do, the next pitch we make is going to benefit from what I just learned. Otherwise, my wife will be pretty angry with me for wasting all the time in a way that doesn’t really pay off on our projects, and rightly so.
Joke: Yeah. And here’s the thing. We live in a golden age of television. And there’s even though we make unscripted, there’s lots of great scripted television out there that, you know, we are happy consumers, dev. But even when we’re watching those, you know, we’re looking for inspiration, we’re looking for wow, I really like how they were able to do this in this scripted show on. Yeah, not quite sure how that is going to play, but like, how could we what’s our gorilla version of those kinds of looks or, or that kind of storytelling or those kinds of graphics or so it’s just, you know, keep learning. Yes. There’s Pacific subjects you can go learn, but it’s also whatever you’re learning in the world, you know, keep letting that inspire your work.
Biagio: Yeah. And, you know, listen, I’m going to bring up something where me and joke differ. And that’s okay. We’re allowed to disagree. We can have this agreement and still love each other when we go to bed at night. I hope we’re about to find out, but I don’t think there’s any excuse for anybody, anybody who wants to work in the business today as a producer or as any type of creative, not to pick up basic skills of how to frame a shot, how to edit together a piece to understand what the sound guy does to to to be able to go out and put together a pitch tape all on their own. It’s so easy to learn these days. Not only there are a million free web tutorials that are actually pretty darn good on how to do it. If you have a Los Angeles Public Library card, you can get a Lynda.com account for free. Just Google it. I mean, I mean, there’s so many places to learn, and I don’t think that somebody who wants to work in the entertainment industry has an excuse not to know how to shoot and edit and to be able to do it honestly at a level that’s pretty darn good. Now joke has a slightly different take on this.
Joke: No, I don’t I mean, I think that in terms of how to put it to use, we might definitely, you know, listen, when we first started in this business, we both were consuming photography books that spoke about framing. And, you know, where is your horizon and your frame and where do you put the eyes and all these things. And, and those are basics that, you know, we still use every day. So I think that it might seem scary to some people like, oh, I have to learn how to shoot and I have to learn how to edit. I think what we’re saying is you don’t have to become the best shooter, and you don’t have to become the best editor. You know, when you get the project going, you hire the best for those positions. But you have to understand enough so you don’t have the fear in picking up a camera. Just get comfortable enough that you’re like, okay, I can I can go and shoot something real quick. And, you know, maybe it’s never going to air whatever, but it’ll get the point across at this pitching stage. And that’s the key thing. Like, you know, I’m all about learning these things. So so it takes away the fear, right? Like, listen, I’m married to an editor and he’s a great one. So I don’t necessarily need to edit. But I tell you what, I, I know enough about the program to sit down and, you know, do string outs, and I know enough about the program to, you know, go find bytes and lay them out for, for either Biagio or somebody else. So I think it’s just, you know, don’t let the fear of a new thing stop you from learning it. The point of view, learning it isn’t always to master it. It’s just to know it enough so it no longer scares you.
Biagio: Well said. And the truth is, the reason joke has never really picked up editing is because she’s so extremely talented and everything she does, she knows it would just totally destroy my delicate ego. The day she sat down and just like, ran circles around me. So thanks for never learning how to edit like a pro on. Yeah, she loves me. She left me good at one thing.
Joke: I’m just gonna let you keep thinking that because, you know, that’s great. I don’t think it’s true, but sure, you go ahead and and think that’s.
Biagio: Anyways to wrap up. And these are things and we honestly believe this from the bottom of our heart. Like, this isn’t just like a filler podcast. Like, I really want you to walk away reminding yourself of these things because it’s based on stuff we’re seeing right now from people who are pitching to us and succeeding and people who aren’t. And that’s number one. Prove you know your stuff. Do not ever walk into a meeting half heartedly. Please respect anyone’s time you’re pitching to and know your subject inside and out, and at the very least, be able to answer questions about how your how your show or project would work and how you see it and why you want to make it and where you think it would air. And I’m going to put links in the show notes about further about all these things. Number two pitch packages, not concepts. Please don’t ever walk in and say, hey, what if we do a show about young amateur MMA fighters, you know, walk in and say, I’ve discovered this pocket of people in Louisiana where everything they live for is MMA and all the drama in town and all the stories in town revolve around this one league, and they’re ready to go on the air.
Joke: We have the league on board, we’ll have access, we can shoot at the fights, yada yada yada.
Biagio: At number three, keep learning because there’s nothing I love more than when we have a meeting with somebody who’s either pitching us a show or interviewing for a job, interviewing for an editing position, or a cinematography position who at some point mentioned this to us. A part of their hobbies is learning other things and getting better, because I guarantee you any area of of the of the industry that you study and learn in any area of life for that matter, is only going to improve your creativity and it’s going to spill over and make your projects better. So there you go. Happy 2017 everybody.
Joke: Keep at it. Great things this year. You know, this whole calendar thing is, you know, obviously something we’ve all put on this. The planet Earth has no idea. But it’s a good way to to start fresh. It’s a good way to kind of refresh, you know, your project list, see what you’re so passionate about and start looking for new things and just, you know, keep plowing and and great things will happen.
Biagio: There you go. So as for those of you who are new to the podcast, or maybe have listened but have forgotten, as you know, part of the reason we started this is because we wanted an easy way for aspiring producers to be able to pitch concepts to us, and we we love teaming up with new producers. If you would like to learn how to do that, just head on over to Producing Unscripted. Com. Sign up for the newsletter and follow the directions. However, even if you never, ever pitch us anything, we hope you’ll check out this podcast and just take away, you know, you know, real tips and tricks from industry vets as opposed to some people out there who occasionally put out bad advice. You know, we want you to know that everything we’re telling you is based on how we run our business. It’s based on the TV shows we’re making right now. So even if we never work together, we hope we save you some trouble or some strife in the long run. And we wish you nothing but success in your endeavors.
Joke: Well said, honey, and we’ll see you guys in two weeks.
Biagio: See you do weeks by everybody.
Announcer: Producing Unscripted with Joke and Biagio.
